Mumsnet Says They Are Trans Friendly; What do you think?

Surely, the solution is formulating some separate provisions and protections for transgender people?

Lots of people prefer to use unisex facilities for various reasons. You wouldn’t need to create facilities for a specific group, just additional unisex facilities.

Oh god how do you do that? My mailbox ends up with loads of notices!

Eteri's 'child' is now an independent adult . I suspect the child angle was being used based on the fact that Mumsnet is a parenting forum.

A lot of people who spend huge amounts of time arguing for their child's needs can end up appearing blunt and harsh at times - ask anyone who has a child with a disability

You obviously have some empathy based on your own circumstances; however, after taking Eteri at face value to begin with, now I'm not quite so sure. My experience with most American posters on FWR is that they have an agenda to push, rather than a story to share.

I don't think Eteri is getting that much of a hard time. Eteri seems pretty blunt and quite harsh on issues which are important to most of us here, and in focusing entirely on their own child, appears not to care at all about the needs and sensitivities of others.

A lot of people who spend huge amounts of time arguing for their child's needs can end up appearing blunt and harsh at times - ask anyone who has a child with a disability.

Doesn’t the @ send out a ‘you’ve been mentioned in a post’ email?

“Also, please don’t @ other posters, it’s considered bad manners.”
Faffertea, or someone else, please would you explain this? I have seen it very frequently on posts so thought that was what was expected so as to reference the post being referred to.
(This is just a simple question with no sarcasm or accusation intended.)

Surely, the solution is formulating some separate provisions and protections for transgender people?

This is the only solution I have ever seen, and the only opposition I have seen for it is from transpeople.

I have sympathy for @Eteri and see why transgender people need support and acceptance within society.

However, the solution is not to erode single sex provisions and protections. Surely, the solution is formulating some separate provisions and protections for transgender people?

Equally our language shouldn't erode the meaning of words surrounding biological females (it renders them nameless) but find new words surrounding transgender people which are acceptable to them. If, for example, England and America both split into factions with some people in each country claiming they were English and American, I don't think either country would allow that to stand legally with no kind of process whatsoever.

I have never heard a girl described as “whipping out her genitalia” .

Eteri, I can see that you are getting a hard time here. I can absolutely see your point of view and think most parents would actually take the same stance in your position

I don't think Eteri is getting that much of a hard time. Eteri seems pretty blunt and quite harsh on issues which are important to most of us here, and in focusing entirely on their own child, appears not to care at all about the needs and sensitivities of others.

This is the problem when pushing an ideology rather than seeking a practical solution to conflict is the name of the game.

Eteri is getting a hard time because they refuse to acknowledge that their childs needs are not more (or less) important than anyone elses.

My sympathy is for the girls at her childs school who were forced to deal with issues such as the first period and learning to use tampons with a teenage male in the next stall.

Why not accept gender and sex need provisions and protections to be put under different umbrellas because gender and sex are different. Which means males (transgender or not) cannot receive protection or provision which is meant for females

Absolutely! If the primary concern is for safety and for comfort, then third spaces/equal provisions are the only practical solution. This is clear. Otherwise there is a perpetual conflict, with the supposed victim group actually becoming the privileged group - as women's feelings become secondary -to their validation requirements.

Eteri, I can see that you are getting a hard time here. I can absolutely see your point of view and think most parents would actually take the same stance in your position.

I think people can understand the struggles of people who were once known as transsexuals and have a lot of sympathy for their challenges.

I think people are a lot less understanding of the direction the concept of being trans has travelled in and those pushing gender identity as being more important than biological sex. It doesn't seem to do any favours for women or anyone suffering from dysphoria around their sex.

Eteri can you acknowledge your child is a male in a female space?

Do you understand why some females do not want to share a space with a male?

What baffles me about trans rights is how people keep attempting to justify that when transpeople and women ask for the same thing, for transpeople its a need and for others its just laughable they would want it.

What happened to equality?

Many of the users of this site are carers for people of the opposite sex (not just young children) and we need unisex spaces. However, it should also be possible to understand why other people need single sex spaces.

Policies have shown that in practice 'inclusive policies' just turn single sex spaces into unisex spaces.

We can't improve the situation if we cannot acknowledge that sex exists, even when that is painful.

What does that have to do with anything? Do you believe my dd doesn't go on bad dates or retreat to the toilet too? Because she does

Due to your seeming mono-focus on your child ( who you have since referred to as a woman - so actually an adult now), you are wilfully neglecting to consider the wider issues that women face as a result of the various narratives surrounding transgendewrism.

it is as if you are totally unconcernd about women and girls altogether, so long as your child is feeling comfortable. in fact, you have said as much. so it can come as no surprise to you that many here, will have no sympathy for your child - when taken in the wider scheme of things.

In the wider scheme of things, this is a women's rights issue, and no matter how lovely the individual transperson may be, it really does not matter. General principles are what matters, and protecting the spaces, services and sports that it would seem that people such as yourself have absolutely no concern or consideration for at all. you even say so yourself.

What does that have to do with anything? Do you believe my dd doesn't go on bad dates or retreat to the toilet too? Because she does.

But if, for example, protected characteristics became for gender and not sex, how would that work? Who would be deemed vulnerable? There are so many different genders and gender can be pretty fluid. How would women be protected from them being disadvantaged due to their biological differences from men? Why not accept gender and sex need provisions and protections to be put under different umbrellas because gender and sex are different. Which means males (transgender or not) cannot receive protection or provision which is meant for females.

Do you believe my dd doesn't go on bad dates or retreat to the toilet too? Because she does.

But there’s nothing to stop the bad ‘date’ following her into the facilities is there? If it isn’t a female-only space.

If somebody is uncomfortable with somebody peeing in the privacy of a stall or sleeping in the next tent, that's there own problem

Many toilet stalls are not sealed units, and are open at the bottom. there have been numerous accounts of hand held camera phones appearing beneath them; and at one point a particularly prominent TRA posted on-line photographs of themselves in the women's toilets, without the explicit knowledege or permission of the women present.

You often see men taking a piss at the side of a road/motorway - in a way I've never ever seen a woman do.

I assume that children suffering from gender dysphoria are very unlikely to do this, and also assume that many people with gender dysphoria avoid using sex segregated facilities at all and that this is debilitating.

However, in practice, (because it's impossible to judge who is trans), the only current alternative to single sex facilities is unisex facilities, which leaves many women stuck at home.

Blanket single sex or unisex provision puts one or other group on a 'urinary leash', but we can't address this problem if we can't acknowledge the existence of different groups with different needs.

I'm struggling to think of something I care less about than whose using the stall opposite in a public toilet

You don't need to be at all concerned because most toilet facilities are single sex.

I used the ladies' toilets in a pub in Edinburgh last year - and there was a handwritten note on the mirror. It suggested to women that if they were feeling threatened or uncomfortable with a man they'd met via a dating app or similar, they could speak to a named person behind the bar.

Women often retreat to toilets as a place of refuge or privacy.

Can you imagine being a lone woman in a mixed sex toilet block in the night time economy? I certainly can! And it is not a very comfortable thought at all.