Mumsnet Says They Are Trans Friendly; What do you think?

it does not give validation

But we cannot provide validation for something which is a personal internal conflict between body and mind. Validation for that is self determined.

And I would have thought that someone who is transgender will have some different and conflicting needs compared to biologically female women. To cater to both sets of needs you need separate provision, this makes sense for both groups.

When it comes to schools, I think its very important the child feels safe and comfortable.

I am a hard nope on a male child using fenmale spaces, but I also would never want them forced to use male spaces.

As so many have said, additional unisex spaces are the only real answer, its just a solution that some transpeople do not want as while it provides spaces, it does not give validation.

I'm just coming back to a point by the op about focusing on xx, women's biology etc as = Women and that this is therefore a reductionist way of looking at being a woman.

I think people who say this haven't thought too deeply about the frameworks people need to enable equality.

There is always a balance that needs to be struck between being treated the same and treated differently, and that balance always requires negotiation as situations change.

Agree, and while as a parent you might feel that your only job is to advocate for your child, at a policy level a school must obviously take into account different and often competing needs.

I think we perhaps need to help children separate their needs from their wants. Plus acknowledge a want can quite often feel like a need to them!.

I'm just coming back to a point by the op about focusing on xx, women's biology etc as = Women and that this is therefore a reductionist way of looking at being a woman.

The only reason feminists do this is because they centre women and girls.

They centre women and girls only because laws and structural oppression has historically and currently does make life harder for women and girls. Simply because of their xx biology.

We don't want to 'harp' on about this. But I'm yet to meet a woman who's had children and is peri or menopausal who hasn't found some sort of unfairness or unequal-ness in their life simply due to biology. And those effects impact trans men too.

Laws have been fought for and created to safeguard women. The still need work. And therefore the the distinction matters.

The irony is that inclusive language for women's health care is intent on reducing women to their body parts.

I’m saying that telling our children to squash feelings of discomfort or fear so that they don’t upset someone is the opposite of good safeguarding.

Agree, and while as a parent you might feel that your only job is to advocate for your child, at a policy level a school must obviously take into account different and often competing needs.

I’m saying that telling our children to squash feelings of discomfort or fear so that they don’t upset someone is the opposite of good safeguarding.

I think this is exactly what we have to tell them but in moderation. The child who doesn't want to fit in with rules because they don't like the rules feels discomfort that they can't do whatever they want, what interests them. We have to be clear about telling people what upsets but also that not everything in life is enjoyable.

Please note Eteri that I am not saying that your child is or was a risk to anyone’s safety.

I’m saying that telling our children to squash feelings of discomfort or fear so that they don’t upset someone is the opposite of good safeguarding.

Male children often have be taught to fit in. They don't always like it and it can seem to take an age sometimes. But it is possible.

It is always about centring the male child

Not always. My D.C. is male. I had to fight to get additional funding he didn't need ceased. Until it was ceased his true achievements were never acknowledged. I think there are sometimes some differences between male and female children as a class. It is most often male children who are picked up as having additional needs. Parents then get sold a narrative that this is for life. When it might not have to be.

The problem isn't 'sleeping in the next tent', the problem is expecting to sleep in the 'same tent' as the girls.

Exactly what I was thinking about just now. There are very good reasons why male and female teens don’t share sleeping spaces at sleepovers and on school residentials. It’s basic safeguarding, why should we be expected to suddenly ignore it for the sake of one person’s feelings?

Being kind and accommodating so as not to hurt someone’s feelings is a massive red flag in safeguarding terms.

There needn't be a problem of competing needs if provision and protection for each vulnerable group is and is assessed and made separately.

My DC had individual funding. When my D.C. ceased to need this funding for themselves their school used the resource for other children. However, this meant my DC always had to work closely alongside them so it looked like my D.C. was still receiving provision. These children each had different and conflicting needs. It didn't work. My D.C. felt demoralised, their true educational needs were unprovided for. Funding can't be conflated.

It was like that poster that had us going for threads earlier this year. It is always about centring the male child

And on this thread.

By this logic why aren’t people saying ‘yes I know it’s really awful and embarrassing for you - but you mustn’t make a fuss, put up with it...’ this is what we were told when we complained that the girls changing room door opened straight into the boys changing room door (or both opposite each other with a corridor of about 4 feet in between) so that anyone changing near the door was visible.

The boys didn’t care but the girls certainly did. There was always a race to get back to the changing rooms after spots to get a spot away from the door.

No wonder I hated sports. That and the communal showers... All children deserve to have privacy and dignity.

When you start scratching the surface of probable interactions in some schools and extra curricular activities, there is conflict. Yet, sometimes it is presented as only the child with dysphoria that has priority.

I think this can be a problem with special provision. People can get institutionalised. My D.C. had some special provision and individual funding to deal with some additional needs when they were small. Although, these needs caused problems I didn't see them as anything that couldn't be overcome.

However, the school wanted to cling onto the funding and were using it elsewhere so they would continually magnify any difficulties. They were very much 'managing attainment' . Thankfully, all this came to light but if it hadn't I think my D.C. would have very much got the message they just couldn't do certain things they have absolutely no problem with now. My D.C. has been a pretty high achiever. Things could have easily been very different,

By your logic, why isn't is a transwomen's problem if they are uncomfortable peeing in a stall in male facilities?

This always is discordant in my mind too? It was like that poster that had us going for threads earlier this year. It is always about centring the male child.

The problem isn't 'sleeping in the next tent', the problem is expecting to sleep in the 'same tent' as the girls. While there IS a problem expecting girls and women who have been traumatised to feel safe and comfortable while in a vulnerable situation, it gets put forward that it is THEIR problem to fix their attitude.

What happens in a school where there is communal changing rooms for PE without cubicles like at both my child's primary and secondary school? What arrangements are expected to be made then?

When you start scratching the surface of probable interactions in some schools and extra curricular activities, there is conflict. Yet, sometimes it is presented as only the child with dysphoria that has priority.

Web version.

No! You tease!

It's the arrow next to Talk, then you highlight personalise, if I recall correctly.

Doesn’t the @ send out a ‘you’ve been mentioned in a post’ email?

People can switch this feature off if they don't like it.

If somebody is uncomfortable with somebody peeing in the privacy of a stall or sleeping in the next tent, that's there own problem

Why is this only ever directed at women? By your logic, why isn't is a transwomen's problem if they are uncomfortable peeing in a stall in male facilities?

Thanks for the answer liquoricetoffee.

“Eteri your male chikd had male spaces they could use.”

If I have understood correctly Eteri’s child is a trans girl. As such she might be in danger in a male space (unfortunately).

She might, however, be felt as a threat, or liable to cause an embarrassment
In the girls’ changing rooms.

In my opinion, for this reason, alternative, third, safe spaces should be included somehow.