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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Mumsnet Says They Are Trans Friendly; What do you think?

790 replies

Nightinghawk · 03/03/2021 15:22

I’m coming over from Twitter since @/MumsnetTowers has encouraged people to join, promising that they would not ban people for using the word “cis” and also that they think “Campaigning against trans people’s existing human rights and legal protections is transphobic” is “an interesting question and a debate [they’d] welcome seeing on the boards.” When asked if they believe that trans women are women, trans men are men, and nonbinary people are nonbinary, they responded with “We believe adults have a right to say what they think about matters of active public debate.” However, they do say they do not tolerate hate speech, malicious content, sweeping negative generalizations, derogatory or aggressive content on their site.

Given the conflicting messages I’ve seen from them in the past, and the fact that they to this day think campaigns against trans people’s rights could in any way not be transphobic and their hesitance to affirm trans people’s autonomy in our self-description and our gender(s), I’m hesitant to believe that Mumsnet the site is actually trans friendly. I mean this as no disrespect to the mod team or others in position of authority; it is merely my opinion (and lived experiences) that any online forum that doesn’t immediately consider campaigns against trans people’s rights as transphobic tend to have (accidentally or otherwise) cultivated a transphobic customer base on their forums. I say this as a trans person who has been leveled all kinds of harassment in a variety of online forums, where those which had not condemned transphobia had immensely more transphobia in quantity and in vitriol.

All this is to say, I’d like to hear your (Mumsnet’s users’) opinions on the matter. Is Mumsnet really a trans friendly space? Do you believe that advocating against trans people’s existing rights is transphobic or anti-trans? Do you think these existing rights for trans people are “interesting” enough for “debate”? Do you think the term cis should be censored? Am I safe asking for/providing advice here as a trans person? Why? Why not?

For reference: I am nonbinary trans and use xe/xem pronouns. I understand they can be difficult to use or to remember to be used for some people. If you don’t want to use my pronouns, then please use my username: Nightinghawk, or NH as shorthand.

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Fembot123 · 05/03/2021 19:25

The one I thought was being discussed in this particular instance, turns out there is no child.

PheasantPlucker1 · 05/03/2021 19:25

So when you said poor kid fembot which one were you referring too?

Fembot123 · 05/03/2021 19:25

I only said I’d feel frightened for them, wow.

Fembot123 · 05/03/2021 19:23

@PheasantPlucker1

FemBot fair enough, its just strange your sympathy is for the one male child who was given access to any space they wanted, not the hundreds of girls in that school who had all their spaces taken away.
I don’t recall saying it was 🤷‍♀️
eaglerising · 05/03/2021 19:22

feeling for one person doesn’t mean you can’t feel for someone else.

No, it doesn't. However, laws protecting and making single sex provisions for biological females are there for a reason. Do not believe that catering for transgender needs requires eroding these single sex provision and protection laws. Sex and gender are distinctly separate. The needs for each are separate and require separate provisions and protections. Conflating the two means vulnerable people lose out. There needs to be separate provision.

PheasantPlucker1 · 05/03/2021 19:20

FemBot fair enough, its just strange your sympathy is for the one male child who was given access to any space they wanted, not the hundreds of girls in that school who had all their spaces taken away.

Fembot123 · 05/03/2021 19:18

I’m sorry, I thought it was a child being discussed.

WoolOfBat · 05/03/2021 19:18

Oh...so the child with the penis needed to access the spaces with girls in puberty and who just had gotten their period?

Why wasn’t third spaces good again?

Speaking as the mother of a girl in puberty who is mortified by her period

Fembot123 · 05/03/2021 19:18

@PheasantPlucker1

FemBot do you also worry about the girls who now have no spaces without males?
I do, and boys that don’t have any male only spaces too. As @eaglerising said individual cases are emotive and feeling for one person doesn’t mean you can’t feel for someone else.
Fembot123 · 05/03/2021 19:16

@eaglerising

I haven’t read the thread but I would fear for a trans girl using the men’s toilets

Individual cases are emotive. What about a female child rape victim being forced to change in front of a biological male (who doesn't pass very well...)?

Society has to make laws to protect the majority. Then we can think of ways to support people who have challenges in conforming to them. However, that doesn't have to mean changing or eroding the laws which protect the majority.

They are aren’t they, emotive that is. I don’t know how to highlight just one piece of a post 😊
Ereshkigalangcleg · 05/03/2021 19:16

It's not the first time this poster has posted about her trans stepchild, as she said.

PheasantPlucker1 · 05/03/2021 19:15

FemBot do you also worry about the girls who now have no spaces without males?

PheasantPlucker1 · 05/03/2021 19:14

@WoolOfBat

Can we just recap so I really understand what is going on? 😣 sorry.

We have a child with a penis?

The child with a penis “know” that they are a girl?

Therefore this child wants to use the changing rooms and the loos with other girls during puberty?

When most girls are horrified by their periods and embarrassed by their changing bodies?

Please tell me that I have got this wrong?

Only a bit!

The child is now an adult, this is what they did, not what they want.

The parent was complaining that people on mumsnet kept telling her to think of others peoples daughters, who apparently were just sensitive for wanting female spaces, unlike her male daughter who needed female spaces.

Ive paraphrased, but used the posters own words.

Unbelievable, isnt it!

eaglerising · 05/03/2021 19:12

I haven’t read the thread but I would fear for a trans girl using the men’s toilets

Individual cases are emotive. What about a female child rape victim being forced to change in front of a biological male (who doesn't pass very well...)?

Society has to make laws to protect the majority. Then we can think of ways to support people who have challenges in conforming to them. However, that doesn't have to mean changing or eroding the laws which protect the majority.

Fembot123 · 05/03/2021 19:11

Poor kid

WoolOfBat · 05/03/2021 19:09

Can we just recap so I really understand what is going on? 😣 sorry.

We have a child with a penis?

The child with a penis “know” that they are a girl?

Therefore this child wants to use the changing rooms and the loos with other girls during puberty?

When most girls are horrified by their periods and embarrassed by their changing bodies?

Please tell me that I have got this wrong?

Fembot123 · 05/03/2021 19:05

I haven’t read the thread but I would fear for a trans girl using the men’s toilets 😨

Ninkanink · 05/03/2021 19:03

@waterlego

Provision of single sex spaces is an ‘ideology’? Bollocks is it. It’s a hard-won right with a strong evidence base.
Absolutely.
waterlego · 05/03/2021 18:59

Provision of single sex spaces is an ‘ideology’? Bollocks is it. It’s a hard-won right with a strong evidence base.

eaglerising · 05/03/2021 18:56

For

eaglerising · 05/03/2021 18:55

I cannot and will not sacrifice my child's safety and happiness on the alter of an ideology. It's not an option in my mind, it's not something that has ever been up for debate,

I can't comment on individual cases but if you are talking about changing/making new laws for the whole of society, ideologies do matter, ideologies affect the whole of society so should be concerned with encompassing the majority of needs.

The protections and provisions for biological females in law have been fought for, with good reason and won. Is there any less need for them now? Well, there are still as many biological females with needs relating to their biology so, no. Are there other groups with needs? Most certainly, yes but catering for them that doesn't necessitate removal of provision and protections or biological females.

womanity · 05/03/2021 18:46

I cannot and will not sacrifice my child's safety and happiness on the alter of an ideology. It's not an option in my mind, it's not something that has ever been up for debate.

But I’m expected to?

StrangeLookingParasite · 05/03/2021 18:44

Blast. Ignore that 'And I don't' bit.

StrangeLookingParasite · 05/03/2021 18:43

I cannot and will not sacrifice my child's safety and happiness on the alter of an ideology. It's not an option in my mind, it's not something that has ever been up for debate,

You see any concern for the girls in the school as an 'ideology'? And I don't

gardenbird48 · 05/03/2021 18:39

agree re. third spaces Toomanymiles