Mumsnet Says They Are Trans Friendly; What do you think?

Just had a look at that status, they've got a point here

Users expect you to be following the boards 24/7, meaning any break you used is counted as you "not wanting to add to the conversation"
Experienced that myself before several times -

• if you stay and reply, you''re "Me Me 'ing, or apparently have no life away from MN.

• If you don't answer every single damn little thing, or step away from the thread, you've apparently gone off to bake a cake or something

They make a good point about ableism, hadn't thought about it that way before - if it feels mentally exhausting from a non disabled point of view, can only imagine how it may feel if you are.
I hadn't heard of the spoons analogy before these recent threads, I think that's a great expression (genuinely)

Seems like OP hasn't been impressed by the responses here.
twitter.com/Nightinghawk/status/1368216021253906441

Sorry, just seen someone upthread has said they're non binary and trans, wasn't referring to you personally as had missed your post, would just be interested to know!
If you've already said, then apologies and I'll go and re-read the thread

I still don’t understand how you can be Non Binary and Trans, not hating just genuinely don’t know

Same, genuinely interested (totally understand if no-one feels up to or wants to explain though)

I still don’t understand how you can be Non Binary and Trans, not hating just genuinely don’t know.

Hi, OP. I'd imagine this is a difficult place for a trans person to post - while there are plenty of posters whose concerns are purely based on protecting cis women's rights

It's worth saying that many of us are just as trans as the OP as Xe said that xe is non-binary. I'd say majority of us would meet all the criteria for non-binary anywhere I've seen them.

Please stop with the "cis" it's really offensive.

Unisex spaces (some people call them 'gender neutral'), & separate spaces for women who can't use such spaces or would simply prefer not to.

There seems to be little enthusiasm for this excellent suggestion from the people demanding that female only spaces should become unisex.

But oddly it’s often women’s loos that are changed to ‘all genders’ and sit next to ‘men’s’ loos.

Wouldn't a solution be to convert male rooms/toilets into safe unisex pangender spaces. Then women's spaces can remain single sex protected.

To be clear I think there have to be alternative safe changing rooms. Women must be able to keep their safe, private spaces.

And can you imagine punk experts going into schools to discuss children's joy for playing musical instruments badly and thoughts on anarchic ideology...? There would have been scissors taken to the uniforms and very free form lessons!

Gardenbird48
“I haven't yet seen anyone provide evidence that a transwoman may be in any more danger in a male space than any other vulnerable male group such as teenagers etc - has anyone come across any yet?”

I would be a bit nervous of any young child/teenager being alone in a male changing room, whether they were male or female.

In my mind too, ( no evidence except the general possible behaviour of a few men) a trans girl in a male changing room might be vulnerable to assault -verbal or physical - because of looking like a female. This is because females alone with men are often vulnerable. Or, vulnerable because of hatred for her otherness if it was realised by some vicious man that she was male though also appearing to be female.

I don’t know what it is like for transmen. Do they find enclosed male spaces safe to be in? If I were one I’d be scared.

only about validation

But this is also curious to me too. Punks, goths and metal heads in the 80s didn't want to be or expect to be validated by middle aged women. They wanted to rebel and laughed in the face of the establishment. They made their own spaces. I don't know why there is such a need for validation. It would be rather a polite rebellion if it weren't so concerned with demonising women who just wanted to keep the single sex protections and provisions made for biological females.

Thanks @WoolOfBat and @PheasantPlucker1, just a misunderstanding.

Fembot if you hadnt read the thread I understand how you misinterpreted.

I apologise if I came across as attacking you, I was gobsmacked at you expressing sympathy for the male in the story who had been given access to the girls loos and sleeping spaces!

It was never about safety and only about validation

And sadly, society can protect and make provision but cannot validate individual internal conflict. Society can widen the band of what is seen as acceptable where this would not physically endanger anyone. So uniforms, for example, could just be a range of clothing options which either sex can wear, toys can include a wide variety but not have gender applied to them. So we can make it easier for people to accept their different tastes and interests but we cannot take away the internal conflict. Someone has to change their mind in some way and find a way to accept themselves to do that. Validating their unease with how their sex correlates to any gender identity they have does not provide a solution to it. It's just like saying, yes, no wonder you feel uneasy, you should!

If it's the same poster, of course. Similar posting style, definitely.

Yes, of course it may not be.

I don't think most have an issue with existing rights. It's the removal of sex based rights that's the issue

Fembot123, I am so sorry if you are feeling attacked. Nobody want to make anyone feel unwelcome. We had a bad day yesterday and posters here were paraded on Twitter by an insincere poster.

Women here do feel terribly sorry for any trans child. Obviously they need a safe and secure space. My understanding is just that the poster never wanted that for their child. It was never about safety and only about validation. Any feelings of young girls in puberty was dismissed as “too sensitive”. And now the child is an adult, still using single sex spaces.

I hope you stick around. There are lots of good discussions- and some spiffing recipes!

I want to say a big thank you to kaineus for their very coherent post and I'd love for them to start a new thread so we can have some different conversations.

I've now followed two long, long threads in which transwomen as the OPs stomped in, never having used MN before, and demanded lots of understanding and toleration. They didn't seem to know the rules, have read other threads, or in this case noticed that it's based in the UK. There were loads of considered, intelligent responses, and lots of questions asked. The OPs in question answered a couple of questions with a lot of word salad, and then buggered off.

So I'd like to suggest that the question we should be asking isn't "Is Mumsnet trans friendly?" but "Are trans posters Mumsnet friendly?" Because the two I've seen seemed to come here with a heck of an agenda; they seemed to demand a lot of consideration without offering any from their side; and they took up a lot of people's time. But what did they actually offer in return?

If it's the same poster, of course. Similar posting style, definitely.

🤦🏼‍♀️ I don’t know what you want, I expressed sympathy for a non existent kid having to go into a what I thought was an adult male toilet, yes. As I also clearly said I hadn’t read the thread, haranguing me because presumably you think my sympathy is an attack on whatever your stance is doesn’t make sense. You have your opinion, own it.

Not the hundreds of girls in that school who no longer had a girls loo and had to hold it all day, or leave the school.