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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Mumsnet Says They Are Trans Friendly; What do you think?

790 replies

Nightinghawk · 03/03/2021 15:22

I’m coming over from Twitter since @/MumsnetTowers has encouraged people to join, promising that they would not ban people for using the word “cis” and also that they think “Campaigning against trans people’s existing human rights and legal protections is transphobic” is “an interesting question and a debate [they’d] welcome seeing on the boards.” When asked if they believe that trans women are women, trans men are men, and nonbinary people are nonbinary, they responded with “We believe adults have a right to say what they think about matters of active public debate.” However, they do say they do not tolerate hate speech, malicious content, sweeping negative generalizations, derogatory or aggressive content on their site.

Given the conflicting messages I’ve seen from them in the past, and the fact that they to this day think campaigns against trans people’s rights could in any way not be transphobic and their hesitance to affirm trans people’s autonomy in our self-description and our gender(s), I’m hesitant to believe that Mumsnet the site is actually trans friendly. I mean this as no disrespect to the mod team or others in position of authority; it is merely my opinion (and lived experiences) that any online forum that doesn’t immediately consider campaigns against trans people’s rights as transphobic tend to have (accidentally or otherwise) cultivated a transphobic customer base on their forums. I say this as a trans person who has been leveled all kinds of harassment in a variety of online forums, where those which had not condemned transphobia had immensely more transphobia in quantity and in vitriol.

All this is to say, I’d like to hear your (Mumsnet’s users’) opinions on the matter. Is Mumsnet really a trans friendly space? Do you believe that advocating against trans people’s existing rights is transphobic or anti-trans? Do you think these existing rights for trans people are “interesting” enough for “debate”? Do you think the term cis should be censored? Am I safe asking for/providing advice here as a trans person? Why? Why not?

For reference: I am nonbinary trans and use xe/xem pronouns. I understand they can be difficult to use or to remember to be used for some people. If you don’t want to use my pronouns, then please use my username: Nightinghawk, or NH as shorthand.

OP posts:
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FamilyOfAliens · 06/03/2021 23:13

Have read the whole thread and my takeaway is that Nighthawk must be really, really hard work to have as a friend.

ErrolTheDragon · 06/03/2021 23:11

@StanfordPines

The comment about being ableist seems to come from the use of the term ‘spoons’, which I’d never heard before.
I saw that mentioned (not used) somewhere and have absolutely no idea what it referred to.
StanfordPines · 06/03/2021 23:08

The comment about being ableist seems to come from the use of the term ‘spoons’, which I’d never heard before.

AnotherEmma · 06/03/2021 22:52

The mobile site works fine for me, I've been using it for years!

Also... the whole of mumsnet is ableist? Based on a few comments on this thread?! Mmmkay Hmm

It really pisses me off when people make sweeping generalisations about mumsnet, as if every single user is the same and has the same opinion, no we're not and no we don't, that's the fucking point!

Anovaneway · 06/03/2021 22:44

the Mums are females which includes women and transmen.

As a group? That may be quite offensive to many trans men given they refer to themselves as men and fathers.

Also I’m sure as far as MN are concerned that would also include trans women who are mums - if they have children and define themselves that way.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 06/03/2021 22:36

... Er...

Quite.

eaglerising · 06/03/2021 22:32

"Appropriated identities"

Now that's an interesting concept....

StanfordPines · 06/03/2021 22:32

So using the cunning plan of not logging in, here is what Nighthawk took away from this conversation.

Mumsnet Says They Are Trans Friendly; What do you think?
Mumsnet Says They Are Trans Friendly; What do you think?
Mumsnet Says They Are Trans Friendly; What do you think?
bourbonne · 06/03/2021 22:21

with appropriated identities being the only exceptions

... Er...

Ereshkigalangcleg · 06/03/2021 22:10

What is a multi gender lesbian??

Multigender:

https://thebodyisnotanapology.com/magazine/what-it-means-to-be-multigender-the-questions-many-have-but-are-afraid-to-ask/

With the exception of genders that are appropriated from marginalized groups (see below), multigenders can include any type of gender imaginable. This extends to identities such as: agender or neutrois, which refer to having no gender; demigender, which refers to having partial gender; and antigender, which is the opposites of another gender (e.g. antigirl).

Is There A Limit To The Number Of Genders A Person Can Have?

No. Embracing multigenderism means refusing to limit the ways we can understand ourselves. A person can have as many genders as they can conceive of, with appropriated identities being the only exceptions (see below).

StanfordPines · 06/03/2021 21:49

[quote TheChampagneGalop]Seems like OP hasn't been impressed by the responses here.
twitter.com/Nightinghawk/status/1368216021253906441[/quote]
Oh, I’m blocked.
That’s a shame.

Fembot123 · 06/03/2021 21:13

Me neither but I clicked on one of the links to their Twitter account on this thread

JaneJeffer · 06/03/2021 20:51

I'm not on Twitter so I'm just going by the archives posted here where they are posting about the beliefs of young people which made me think they are older.

munroclimber · 06/03/2021 20:50

Haven't read any of the thread. Just thought. It's MumsNet, it's about Mums and children and the Mums are females which includes women and transmen. I've never seen anyone say anything otherwise.

WiseUpJanetWeiss · 06/03/2021 20:48

[quote TheChampagneGalop]Seems like OP hasn't been impressed by the responses here.
twitter.com/Nightinghawk/status/1368216021253906441[/quote]
Goodness - I’m blocked. Probably because I follow some uppity women on Twitter. This is really strange behaviour.

Fembot123 · 06/03/2021 20:47

@JaneJeffer

From their previous tweets I don't think the OP of this thread is a young person.
Doesn’t it say they are 20 on twitter
Fembot123 · 06/03/2021 20:47

@TheBuffster

I get a kind of person in pain vibe from those tweets. As eaglerising says calm engagement is the only way to engage, although I know it's difficult to meet hostility this way and am guilty of hot headedness as much as anyone, especially with real consequences for girls and women being disregarded as trivial or non issues.

The sad thing is, I think that person would find a lot more acceptance if they dismantled their rigid thinking about gender and just learned to love themselves as they are, as a unique person on the spectrum of personality, not gender.

I hope that as they are young there's still time for them to grow into the self confidence it takes to be happy with the person they are without demanding the world see them in a certain way.

Agree
Sophoclesthefox · 06/03/2021 20:46

Both of our recent joiners from Twitter seem quite fragile in much the same ways. It will not be appreciated, but they kind of have my sympathy as they seem to be struggling. I don’t wish that on anyone, no matter how infuriating and silly their actions here are.

The narcissism is irritating though- fair enough that life can get it the way, I’ve often posted and not been able to come back. But what on earth would make OP think that the same wouldn’t apply to every other poster here? We’re not all sitting with baited breath for your next great pronouncement on how dreadful and ignorant we all are.. Engage if you have the energy, don’t if you don’t, but don’t come looking for a debate then berate us when you get it!

JaneJeffer · 06/03/2021 20:43

From their previous tweets I don't think the OP of this thread is a young person.

TheBuffster · 06/03/2021 20:40

I get a kind of person in pain vibe from those tweets. As eaglerising says calm engagement is the only way to engage, although I know it's difficult to meet hostility this way and am guilty of hot headedness as much as anyone, especially with real consequences for girls and women being disregarded as trivial or non issues.

The sad thing is, I think that person would find a lot more acceptance if they dismantled their rigid thinking about gender and just learned to love themselves as they are, as a unique person on the spectrum of personality, not gender.

I hope that as they are young there's still time for them to grow into the self confidence it takes to be happy with the person they are without demanding the world see them in a certain way.

Ninkanink · 06/03/2021 20:40

@JaneJeffer

I’d be a lot more patient and longsuffering if I knew I was speaking to someone very young Yes but I would still expect them not to lie
Oh yes quite right. I was speaking in a general sense, not just about this thread/OP.
JaneJeffer · 06/03/2021 20:13

You have criticised the way I asked a question of the OP just because you don't like the way I asked it @Mockolate.

Mockolate · 06/03/2021 20:11

it's hostile , even

Mockolate · 06/03/2021 20:10

I will say what is permitted without needing your approval

WTF, where are you getting I'm telling you what to say, lol?
Comment what you like!
It was a lighthearted comment.
Am I not supplying sufficiently agreeing posts, or having the audacity and the gumption to post something you don't want to hear?
Then people say it's not hostile on here.
Can't think why lol

JaneJeffer · 06/03/2021 20:06

I will say what is permitted without needing your approval @Mockolate

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