Mumsnet Says They Are Trans Friendly; What do you think?

No, it was MN themselves who invited people to post and see for themselves that they were open to "debate on the boards."

And I think this was in response to someone called ChloeClark who replied to the Mimmymum tweet with "@SoreenHQ Why are you working with Mumsnets when they openly support transphobic, homophobic and racism on their site? And punish anyone who dare to speaks out about it on their site"
The conversation went on from there.

As someone else said, this board is full of frighteningly intelligent women, experts in all areas of life and experiences, so if you want to debate, you need to do so with good faith and with knowledge. It doesn't matter if you're not brilliant at articulating your points, but please don't use "fancy" terms / phrases that you yourself don't fully understand in order to shut down discussion - it's very likely that someone here will have an advanced degree in it....

Great point.

They resist using peoples preferred pronouns

I have seen none of that on here

Really?!
Just two examples
A thread just the other day - someone posted about their trans son and the thread constantly referred to as "OP's daughter."

Also it is very common to use "they" when referring to trans people on here, even when the person goes by she, or he.
Which confused me when I first saw these discussions on the boards, but soon realised was a way to make sure nobody had to refer to the preferred pronouns.

Gah. Sorry - slow thumbs this morning! As someone else said, this board is full of frighteningly intelligent women, experts in all areas of life and experiences, so if you want to debate, you need to do so with good faith and with knowledge. It doesn't matter if you're not brilliant at articulating your points, but please don't use "fancy" terms / phrases that you yourself don't fully understand in order to shut down discussion - it's very likely that someone here will have an advanced degree in it....

How tiresome.
There’s about another 50 threads of op’s posting the same shit to appear clever and asking the same questions.
Why can’t Mumsnet hq just post links to those on Twitter so we can get on with other things?

But, but, "it's Latin!"

I believe our recent visitors from Twitter are answering Mimmymum's rallying cry to expose Mumsnet as a vile cesspit of transphobia to the Marketing bods at Soreen, convincing them that they would be accepting the devil's coin if a feminist ever purchased a maltloaf

No, it was MN themselves who invited people to post and see for themselves that they were open to "debate on the boards."

@ErrolTheDragon

Chemistry pedant... for those of you who didn't do a couple of degrees in chemistry

Cis and trans are configurational isomers, not mirror images (that's chirality, 'handedness'). And they're chemically (not merely optically) different - they can have different boiling points and different properties. An obvious everyday case is in saturated fats, one form is now known to be worse for you than the other. They're simply different and not generally interconvertible. All the same bits, but in different places, so no analogy with biology at all really.

If the TRA movement insist on using a clumsy and misleading chemistry metaphor, they might at least use the right one

.... Not to mention many, many mentions of desire to eat malt-loaf! Advertising win, which is the point of advertising a product which doesn't require the consumer to believe anything in order to enjoy it.

I have seen none of that on here.

deadname people

I have never seen that happen

assume that trans people want access to single sex spaces to rape women

Not true, wanting women to have privacy and their own safe space is the issue, and you know it.

Also maltloaf - yum

Just catching up with this thread with my morning cuppa.

I believe our recent visitors from Twitter are answering Mimmymum's rallying cry to expose Mumsnet as a vile cesspit of transphobia to the Marketing bods at Soreen, convincing them that they would be accepting the devil's coin if a feminist ever purchased a maltloaf.

I feel the tactic may have backfired. If Soreen follow the trail to this board what they'll see is page after page after page (the other thread filled up within a few hours) of women putting their points across patiently, respectfully, with some humour and an unassailable barrage of facts and evidence.

The thing is, it's always dazzlingly obvious on these threads which side has the better quality of evidence-based argument. Which side has robust stats from respected sources. Which side looks to clearly definable terms on which to base law. And which side relies on faith-based belief, obfuscation and co-opting the struggles of other protected groups. I think that most people wandering in here for a read from outside the trans-twitter bubble wouldn't see any transphobia, just good questions intelligently posed.

As is so often the case, I'm not sure that Mimmymum has done those she seeks to represent any favours at all.

It's woman friendly. That doesn't mean it's flowers and sunshine for every woman all the time. There are opinions.

Disability and biological sex are not analogous.

Disability can take many forms, can fluctuate, and is often context-specific and therefore, to an extent, subjective. Not all individuals with the same impairment consider themselves disabled, or they may consider themselves disabled in some contexts but not others (as I do with my own disability).

Biological sex is none of those things. It is binary (yes, even for people with DSDs), irrevocably determined at the moment of conception in all mammals, and is consistent at all times for any given individual. It can be objectively scientifically determined. It remains objectively true, whether or not the individual concerned accepts it.

I find cis incredibly offensive. Stop it.

What trans rights do you think are under attack?

Be who you want to be, I really don't care.

Women have hard won rights, and don't want them erased or amendef to centre people who grew up with male privelege. Plenty of evidence in the feminism boards, suggest that you educate yourself.

Best of luck.

*instead of the usual sex based pronouns.

Speaking generally now. I don't really get using special pronouns, because it relies on others both wanting and being able to remember to talk about you using special words. It's impossible to control how others think and talk about yourself. Most adults live hectic and stressful lives, remembering names can be hard enough. I actually find it rude when people tell others to use non-standard sex based pronouns.

The sole purpose of pronouns is to make communication a bit easier and more fluid, rather than repeating a noun (proper or otherwise) . Neopronouns frustrate that purpose - they function more as a set of alternative proper nouns. 'They' as a singular has been in common parlance for centuries, mostly for people of unknown sex; I can get why people who wish not to be identified by sex use that. What further point is there to neopronouns?

So yes, as cis is clearly a slur to so many WOMEN, I think it should be banned. One wonders why, when you know it is so deeply offensive to most women, that you would continue to use it. Why? What is your agenda in using such a deeply offensive term, if it isn't to antagonise women? Why do it? If I used the term 'tranny', I would rightly be rounded on. I wouldn't use a term that would upset transpeople. So why do transpeople think it's acceptable to use a slur against women when we've clearly said it's offensive and upsetting to us? Can you not have a conversation without using that term? If you are genuine about dialogue, you would be able to engage in good faith and good spirit and not use to terms that otherise and categorise women (and men also when it's used in front of the word men).

I don't see why this isn't a safe space for transpeople if they come on here in good faith and don't have the expectation that they can call us any offensive terms they want, and we can't do the same. Just as I wouldn't go on a site that discusses BAME issues and use the 'n' word and expect to get away with it, I expect transpeople on here to come in good faith and not use terms that are, for obvious reasons, clearly deeply offensive to women. You won't do well here if you want it 100% your way, which from experience, most transpeople coming on here do expect. It's 50-50. I'll use whatever pronouns you like, if you don't use that offensive 'cis' slur. I think that's fair enough. I truly do.

I'd love to know why you picked xe/xem. Rather than just they/them.

Does it have a tangibly different meaning that is widely understood or do you just find it more attractive (like selecting a pretty new name)?

I like fae/faer/faerself. It's like fairie.

Could I select this if I decide I am not gender non conforming but really man, woman and other, or does it mean something specific?

Did you factor into your decision that it would be significantly more of a cognitive burden on the people around you?

How do you feel about the neo pronouns Gen X are coming up with . Does it undermine the more orthodox pronouns (being able to randomly pick a word)? SomNy questions.Thanks

This may sound facetious, @nightinghawk, but I mean it sincerely and with goodwill, and I don't need an answer.

Do you think there might be something liberating about accepting that you are a certain sex, and that the rest is personality and preferences?

Just... Ploughing on with your day and your life, without seeking to define proportions of inner femininity and masculinity?

I expect you may say no, as this way of analysing and understanding yourself seems to be providing you with some comfort at this current stage in your life, but I will just leave the thought there.

If you consider yourself a male and people can see you're a male, they'd automatically address you as he. And same if you consider yourself a female and present as a female

Good point. Pronouns are something other people give you, not something you choose yourself. They are also based on sex which is easily identified. They are also not something you would typically use when the subject of the pronouns is present, so it seems a little odd to try and control speech you are unlikely to hear.