Mumsnet Says They Are Trans Friendly; What do you think?

@tellmewhentheLangshiplandscoz

Sorry derail ...hopefully it'll be the last one I need to buy but I'd like to get a face mask in suffragette colirs fabric ... does anyone know of a good seller, say on Etsy for example? When I say good seller I mean someone who isn't also selling Death to TERFS t shirts or ripping off another woman's designs

radicalteatowel.co.uk/face-masks/suffragette-stripes-face-mask-with-elastic

I'd like to ask Nightinghalk how old they are.

I reject gender, it is all stereotypes. I reject cis as a label for my gender, I don’t subscribe to the notion of having a gender, it is a meaningless construct. I won’t put pronouns in my bio or email signature or wear a fucking pronoun badge.

I am left leaning in politics but have no party to vote for anymore. I am afraid for my daughters’ and nieces’ future in sports and society if we don’t protect female spaces.

I am raising my children to reject gender as a concept..

I've seen very little to suggest that most people claiming to be "intersectional" in their approach aren't simply using it as a buzzword or a thought terminating cliche to shut others down.

"Intersectionality" is nothing of the sort if it ignores the major axis of oppression worldwide which is being born into the female sex.

Believe what you want.
You can't just believe what you want. I could believe I am the Queen of England but the facts state otherwise.

Its funny because anyone who has followed the evolution of the 'gender critical' movement in the UK and debate on feminism chat on MN more widely in an objective way is aware that its roots come from left wing and has a notable working class representation.

Whats also telling is these women frequently come to MN to say how they feel excluded from left wing representation and feel politically homeless. They express a distaste for the ring wing political parties in the UK for a variety of reasons.

And yet we get lazy twitter SJW explaining how feminists in the UK are aligned with the US religious christian right. And how they don't like human rights or inclusivity etc etc.

This is despite many having decades behind them campaigning (successfully I might add) on these type of left wing liberal ideas.

The cognitive dissonance is astonishing. But a sizeable chunk of it is coming from American interlopers who know fuck all about uk politics, political movements and political debates.

I think my head is going to explode. The comment that stood out for me was: "The beautiful thing about words is that there are many definitions to them." Er, no mate. Have you ever encountered a dictionary? You know, that large book containing the exact, agreed, complete meaning of a word. You might want to get hold of one and look up, for instance, what the word woman means.

No one, regardless of if they are transgender or not, or black or asian or whatever, regardless of religion should be penalised. No one. And I give you my sympathies and best wishes to advocate for change, but your country seems so adverse to adapting to western first world civilisation, so adverse to helping poor people or to even having basic health care or a basic standard of living, and considering how ultra extreme your politics are (Democrats would be seen as conservative in Australia, Bernie Sanders is the only true leftie - that's have extreme far right your politics is compared to western first world nations), I don't like your chances. Your nation is so polarised, that any advocacy for progress I honestly don't see happening within the next 50 years over there. I sincerely hope I am wrong. But your problem is not with us women, it's with your own country's culture. I hope and pray for your sake Biden is able to bring about some change, but even he seems too much to the right of the Democrats. If you're not politically active, please consider doing so, America needs people like yourself to lead a complete overhaul of your country's culture and democracy.

Sorry derail ...hopefully it'll be the last one I need to buy but I'd like to get a face mask in suffragette colirs fabric ... does anyone know of a good seller, say on Etsy for example? When I say good seller I mean someone who isn't also selling Death to TERFS t shirts or ripping off another woman's designs

If you want to lobby and talk about rights of women across the world, you need to address the elephant in the room. Gender is western centric and priviledged.

No girl can identify out of FGM. No unborn baby girl can prevent her own abortion by declaring her gender is male. No woman can stop being raped in war crimes because of her gender identity. Women and girls can't avoid having to ask permission from her father or husband in certain countries. Etc etc.

These are all down to sex. Gender identity is utterly meaningless.

We need protection on the basis of our sex. Failure to understand why this is important leaves us at risk.

Just because the US also fails to protect on the grounds of sex, isn't a problem for UK politics because we are not the US.

We have our own battles to fight.

Yes Twitter is American based.

So much of the toxic side of this debate has been enabled by American Media Giants which have silenced feminists because they do not recognise the law protections that we have in the uk relating to sex. The terms and conditions of twitter ONLY refer to gender. This is a problem which should be dealt with tbh.

This being a UK website based in England reflects our law. It is right that we can exercise our concerns over how we are being denied protections as stated in our law on a website in England.

Do you understand how an American telling us x, y and z based on what its like in America is bad when its got fuck all to do with UK society and law and by their own admission they know nothing about UK society and law looks like.

Perhaps you should go and check how things are different to the US rather than assuming its the same in the UK.

Being ignorant is not a good look for someone professing to be progressive...

OP unfortunately America is extremely backward in most areas compared to other first world western countries. The lack of health care, the lack of welfare, the lack of a basic minimum wage that every other advanced nation has. The absence of any real worker rights.

Women have suffered from the exact same laws, you aren't any different. What you you are referring to is a lack of protections for Americans, in general.

Transgender people in America are not suffer any more than heterosexual, homosexual or male or female. You're acting like the laws ONLY affect transgender people. They don't.

They affect everyone.

In Australia, and in NZ and in Canada as in the UK (and probably Sweden etc) workers are protected. Well, at least a darn site more than in America. What you have, is a system in America geared to support the rich, and penalise the poor. What you have, is a system where wait staff are forced to rely on tips - of all things (not done in Australia, no one tips here, no need to, minimum wage is around $18 an hour), just to survive. You have a very archaic system.

And it needs changing, but unless Americans rise up, demand universal health care like all first world western countries have, and demand a basic minimum living wage like all first world western countries have, and demand basic worker's rights and employment protections like all first world western countries have, nothing will change, America will not enter the 20th century, let alone the 21st.

It's not just slight discrepancies between rights in the UK and the US, there is a huge difference between the laws. All the major rights you mentioned already exist in the UK, people have protections for sex, race, gender reassignment (which starts as soon as the person announces they intend to undergo gender reassignment), disability, and sexual orientation.

In the UK the trans right which is being demanded is self-id to legally change sex. I think it's important to note that trans people have pretty comprehensive rights in the UK.

In addition to emergency care, which is a given, after they have waited their turn (which admittedly is quite a wait now because of the 4000% (yes, 4000%) increase in gender clinic referrals over the last few years), every aspect of a trans persons care, including top surgery, bottom surgery, lifelong medications and any psychological care will be funded in its entirety by the National Health Service. The only contribution from the patient would be a prescription charge for medications, which is waived if you are on welfare.

If I'm not being told I'm "cis" on twitter, I'm being explicitly told I hate gender non-conforming women. 'Scuse me!

I'm a feminist! At its essence what has feminism ever been but a refusal to conform to the status quo and a campaign for change? They said "women can't study medicine". The Edinburgh Seven refused to conform and attended an anatomy exam in spite of male students pelting them with mud. Our great-grandmothers won the vote. The put on bloomers so that they could ride bikes. And on and on and on.

And people tell me feminists hate people who don't abide by sex-stereotypes? Where have you been all these years?

Oh, you're based in the US! Look, I don't want to be rude. But there's a real element of cultural imperialism about this movement. The US is one country. This is a British site (with posters from and/or living in other countries too, but by and large British). Our culture, history and laws are not the same as yours. It's a shame that Twitter flattens these distinctions and nuances. I hope you find it interesting, anthropologically, to read through our forum and get a sense of where we, specifically, are coming from.

I probably should have mentioned this before as well, but I'm based in the US, so there may be some discrepancies in the discussion as a result of that.

This is the UK.

Our law system is different.
Our laws are different.
Our culture is different.
Our society is different.

We are not the US. We don't pay for healthcare through insurance. No one is denied healthcare if they need emergency care.

Perhaps you should focus on injustice in the US or something you know stuff about rather than making ill informed assumptions about the UK.

I have to stay that someone trying to deny my political voice/rights /freedom to speak in the UK on a UK forum when they from the US is pretty spectacular in arrogance.

It should also be noted on the basis of work place discrimination and firing, that many states in the US are "right to work" states, meaning that employers do not have to provide reason for firing a person, making it all the more difficult for us to fight this discrimination in a court of law

I agree with you entirely, NH, that the situation is awful - but it applies to everyone. Women can get fired because they got pregnant, or because they wouldn't wear heels, or because they rejected the CEO's advances. Lesbians can be fired for being lesbians. Anyone can be fired for saying that biological sex is real, and that same-sex attraction is valid.

This isn't an attack on trans rights. This is an attack on worker's rights - on everyone.

And as for the "right-wing" thing - most right-wingers, even American ones, aren't usually in favour of lesbian and gay rights, never mind women's rights. And it's women's rights, and lesbian and gay rights, which are under threat from gender ideology. And, of course, the person who has put most money into promoting trans rights is billionaire Republican Jennifer Pritzker, who before transition was in the US military.

I haven't RTFT, but @Nightinghawk, have you gone on all the other forums that have banned lesbians for saying that they won't date anyone with a penis? Or those forums that have banned women who have experienced sexual assault who have written about their need for single-sex spaces? Have you asked them if they are "lesbian-friendly" or "woman-friendly"?

I ask because it's only Mumsnet, which allows posters with a wide range of views (including plenty of transpeople), and which encourages open and honest debate of every sort, which tends to get asked this question.