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Mumsnet Says They Are Trans Friendly; What do you think?

790 replies

Nightinghawk · 03/03/2021 15:22

I’m coming over from Twitter since @/MumsnetTowers has encouraged people to join, promising that they would not ban people for using the word “cis” and also that they think “Campaigning against trans people’s existing human rights and legal protections is transphobic” is “an interesting question and a debate [they’d] welcome seeing on the boards.” When asked if they believe that trans women are women, trans men are men, and nonbinary people are nonbinary, they responded with “We believe adults have a right to say what they think about matters of active public debate.” However, they do say they do not tolerate hate speech, malicious content, sweeping negative generalizations, derogatory or aggressive content on their site.

Given the conflicting messages I’ve seen from them in the past, and the fact that they to this day think campaigns against trans people’s rights could in any way not be transphobic and their hesitance to affirm trans people’s autonomy in our self-description and our gender(s), I’m hesitant to believe that Mumsnet the site is actually trans friendly. I mean this as no disrespect to the mod team or others in position of authority; it is merely my opinion (and lived experiences) that any online forum that doesn’t immediately consider campaigns against trans people’s rights as transphobic tend to have (accidentally or otherwise) cultivated a transphobic customer base on their forums. I say this as a trans person who has been leveled all kinds of harassment in a variety of online forums, where those which had not condemned transphobia had immensely more transphobia in quantity and in vitriol.

All this is to say, I’d like to hear your (Mumsnet’s users’) opinions on the matter. Is Mumsnet really a trans friendly space? Do you believe that advocating against trans people’s existing rights is transphobic or anti-trans? Do you think these existing rights for trans people are “interesting” enough for “debate”? Do you think the term cis should be censored? Am I safe asking for/providing advice here as a trans person? Why? Why not?

For reference: I am nonbinary trans and use xe/xem pronouns. I understand they can be difficult to use or to remember to be used for some people. If you don’t want to use my pronouns, then please use my username: Nightinghawk, or NH as shorthand.

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notyourhandmaid · 09/03/2021 07:18

"All of which is a shame because clearly there are actual transphobes in the world who use demeaning terms about trans people. Their behaviour is a world away from the robust but civil debates on MN."

Yes. It's nearly as though some people would prefer to hate women for not agreeing with them 100% than to address men for committing actual violence. If only there was a word for this kind of women-hating behaviour...

Ereshkigalangcleg · 08/03/2021 22:25

Oh, weren't any blatant examples found?

waterlego · 08/03/2021 20:20

Being accused of being Transphobic when everything appears to be transphobic is meaningless.

Definitely. If someone accused me of being racist or homophobic, I’d be mortified and very worried, and would be examining my behaviour and language to see where I’d gone wrong. Being called transphobic is water off a duck’s back. Even some of the most ardent of TRAs have been accused of it from time to time so it is plainly an empty accusation.

All of which is a shame because clearly there are actual transphobes in the world who use demeaning terms about trans people. Their behaviour is a world away from the robust but civil debates on MN.

Nameitychangity · 08/03/2021 19:42

Unless you agree 100% without question that men can become women in every way, (and vice versa) then you are a transphobe.
That is the narrative, and if you dare to stand up for, say, biology and science, you are a bigot and a transphobe.
It's even been suggested that people's opinions should be policed inside their own HOMES. That's not a world I want to live in. There's a word for that, if only I could remember what it is......

DialSquare · 08/03/2021 18:36

I agree wholeheartedly Helleofabore

Being accused of being Transphobic when everything appears to be transphobic is meaningless.

Helleofabore · 08/03/2021 18:28

And remember recently one very prominent transwoman who is a very vocal activist, was called transphobic too. It has truly become a meaningless word which is a huge problem, because there are many people who are phobic.

Helleofabore · 08/03/2021 18:26

DialSquare

yes, I know. And there is also a general reluctance to define what is transphobic by posters who call it out. It remains a catch all, that seems to also catch some of the posters calling it out if it is taken as some of the published policies.

I don't believe Mockolate is anymore transphobic than many of us here. Because I don't believe the definitions being pushed by some very prominent activists. But I think it would be a step forward if a poster who uses the term can define it for us.

Thecatonthemat · 08/03/2021 18:12

Some of us do now think that it’s not worth our time to argue with some trans supporters here. You are never going to convince us that anyone can change sex or that men should be allowed in womens sex protected spaces.

DialSquare · 08/03/2021 18:08

Mockolate has previously admitted that they do have an issue with Self ID which I'm pretty sure is considered transphobic by some.

Helleofabore · 08/03/2021 18:04

Mockolate

So, do you think that it is transphobic to state that males should not be allowed to compete with females in sport when that male has had the benefit of male puberty and androgens?

Do you think that it is transphobic to state that women should not have to share a jail cell with a male (including those who have also had the benefit of male puberty and are more powerful than females) regardless of how that male identifies?

RufustheSniggeringReindeer · 08/03/2021 18:03

Transphobic posts are deleted

There may be transphobic posters like there are racist and homophobic ones but the site, and the vast vast vast majority of the people on it, is not transphobic

Helleofabore · 08/03/2021 17:53

I think it is quite something to use such an overused term such as 'transphobic' these days. Since simply stating that there are only two sexes and that sex is immutable is considered phobic, I daresay that you will find the majority of the population fits that description.

And yet, we have it on excellent authority from some very experienced leaders in their fields (including legal experts) in the HoLs that stating these things is NOT phobic at all.

Maybe you would like to define what you believe the word means and we can discuss it from there.

GCAcademic · 08/03/2021 17:53

No, go on Mockolate. Do point out some actual transphobia and tell us why it's transphobic. I'm all ears. Your contributions on here are generally snipes and eye rolls. It would be great to hear some actual thoughts. I'm sure you must have some.

Impatiens · 08/03/2021 17:52

Let's have a 'blatant example' then @Mockolate, test your theory?

Mockolate · 08/03/2021 17:49

And, interestingly, no one, when challenged, can ever point to specific, actual instances of transphobia on here

Not true.
As in when people go "I see no transphobia, examples?"
If someone gives a blatant example, it gets denied every time.
Then when blatant transphobia does get deleted, it's never that it was indeed transphobic - it's apparently not because of that at all, it's "women being erased!" or something Hmm

StanfordPines · 08/03/2021 17:49

@Carolina24

Mumsnet is one of the most transphobic internet sites I’ve ever encountered and it would be truly laughable to suggest otherwise.
Really? You don’t get about much do you?

If you think that saying a woman is an adult human female is the most transphobic thing you can think of you are in for a shock.

Biscuitsanddoombar · 08/03/2021 17:34

MN frown heavily on transphobic posts Carolina24 so I do hope you are busy reporting everyone you see

Recognising that there are only 2 sexes & women are adult human females and require their own sex based rights & services is not transphobic

GCAcademic · 08/03/2021 17:32

@Carolina24

Mumsnet is one of the most transphobic internet sites I’ve ever encountered and it would be truly laughable to suggest otherwise.
Frankly, the term "transphobia" is utterly meaningless, since it now means "acknowledgement of biological sex" and casts 99% of the population as transphobes. And, interestingly, no one, when challenged, can ever point to specific, actual instances of transphobia on here.
Carolina24 · 08/03/2021 17:28

Mumsnet is one of the most transphobic internet sites I’ve ever encountered and it would be truly laughable to suggest otherwise.

GCAcademic · 08/03/2021 12:47

Yes, I agree Wander. If you are used to being able to block any dissenting or questioning voice on Twitter, it must be a bit of a shock to find that other points of view can't be dealt with by a mute function.

WanderinWomb · 08/03/2021 11:46

I think that those not used to a public chat forum may find it overwhelming .
If posting on FB or Twitter only ones friends or followers will see it unless gets shared by a big name.

Here every OP is equal.

Anyone can start one , on AIBU and busy boards like this it will be seen by thousands very quickly, can even end up on internationtional press.

Ninkanink · 08/03/2021 08:53

Oh no I can’t stand rabbit warren threads - MN might be old school but at least you can follow a thread and a discussion in its entirety, all it takes is paying a little attention.

ErrolTheDragon · 07/03/2021 23:39

Nested threads just creates a sort of rabbit warren which goes off in too many directions.

PotholeParadies · 07/03/2021 20:02

I detest nesting if I'm lurking on a thread. I prefer things to be in chronological order, with a decent quote function.

bourbonne · 07/03/2021 19:54

Non-nested threads are more like an open, wide-ranging group discussion. Nesting is like little groups splintering off in whispers. I prefer the former for MN.