FFS re. Hilaria & Alec Baldwin and normalisation of surrogacy

If I, or anyone else, want to express an opinion on surrogacy and at the same time to seek to persuade the UK to adopt the same position as many other countries it certainly isn't your business to say that we may not do so.

It shouldn't be allowed or legal though, that's the point. (And those two things are not a sign that something is okay!)

It’s none of your decisions to make though!! That’s the point!! If it’s allowed and legal then it’s none if your business what a person/couple decides to do....

As an infertile woman who had multiple miscarriages and ended up without children, I 100% object to surrogacy in every single case, yes.

That kind of emotional blackmail doesn't work with me, and I know others feel the same.

Would you object if a gay couple used a surrogate in order to have a baby?

Yes. Of course - why not?

Would you object to a friend of someone that’s lost their womb due to cancer treatments, offering to be a surrogate for the poor women?

Yes. It's sad but it doesn't make surrogacy acceptable.

Would you object if a gay couple used a surrogate in order to have a baby?

Would you object to a friend of someone that’s lost their womb due to cancer treatments, offering to be a surrogate for the poor women?

Easy for you to say eh 🙄

I used to think sibling surrogates isn't the same as commercial...but then you read things like that. Yikes.

I think 'altruistic' surrogacy in families can actually be worse, whilst I don't like the transactional nature of human trafficking surrogacy I do think that in some ways it makes that separation 'easier' to process (for the adults)a Within families there are risks of coercion and abuse. We've seen it on here, although coercion and abuse takes place in both methods.

There is a sibling story in Renate Klein's book that illustrates it perfectly, I would say that it was a mild example and appears to be all lovely and fluffy from the outside.

I'm happy to say that my (adopted) DD is neither second best or damaged goods.

I'm sure she is neither of those things either. I read the adoption board and find it very uplifting. I don't mean to sound patronising at all, I truly find people who adopt to be special, it's such a beautiful thing. I wish more people did it. I didn't, my husband was against the idea and it does need to be both of you 100% on board from the very beginning, just with the idea.

I hate the comparison between surrogacy and adoption as for me there is no comparison to be made at all, they are entirely opposite.

So sick and sad. Those poor accessories children.

I can't believe how unregulated it is. It's unconscionable to impregnate a surrogate while already pregnant yourself.

With adoption I'm sorry to say that from what I see it is considered a back up plan and 'second rate' due to the lack of a bio connection and likely 'damaged goods'

This attitude is often expressed on MN. Oh adoptive parents are wonderful ... I couldn't do it ... Adopted children come with baggage

I'm happy to say that my (adopted) DD is neither second best or damaged goods.

Yes but both NK and SJP carried their first babies to term themselves?

At the time NK was pregnant there was internet speculation that it was a fake bump and after she was pictured in tight white pants two weeks after giving birth I pretty much believed them.

It’s not that she was so thin whilst supposedly pregnant - it’s that if the bump was removed she’d look exactly the same. No puffiness, no prominent veins, there was a lot of bump holding but her centre of gravity looked non pregnant. It’s not that she was so slender - Angelina Jolie was also very slim but she had really prominent veins and that facial, hormonal puffiness. Rumours in Australia are that her sister was the “gestational carrier” for both.

Surrogacy is abhorrent whatever the circumstances & this is particularly disgusting.

Ugh. What a level of entitlement those two must have. I misread the headline originally and thought she had got pregnant six months after having her 5th child i.e. had a baby with an 18 month age gap, nothing too unusual about that. Hiring a surrogate for a six month age gap when you already have 5 healthy living children? Horrible. Children are not accessories to be bought and arranged to fit your lifestyle.

It'd be like in that show Rome when Caesar's teenage nephew does something wrong where he's supposed to be punished, so they whip his slave.

But I prefer to think Amy won't do that...I'm a big fan of her's.

I've said before but women who have actually been pregnant but then go on to use surrogacy are worse than a gay man doing so.
While I don't think surrogacy is acceptable in ANY case, I understand how a sister or friend would feel compelled to consider it for an infertile sister/friend. I often think there's naïveté on both sides in these types of circumstances. Women who experience infertility suffer a great deal and I have so much compassion for them...many would be thrilled with just one child. I still disagree if they chose surrogacy, but can understand they often act under a sense of desperation.

But for a woman who already gave birth and has a child?!?! How could she ASK that of another woman? It's just so egregious. She should know better...makes me wonder if class/race/entitlement play a part in these types of wealthy/celebrity transactions.

I've said before but women who have actually been pregnant but then go on to use surrogacy are worse than a gay man doing so.

I agree. These women who make much of the joys of having a new baby, who have been through pregnancy and childbirth (maybe straightforward maybe complicated and difficult) KNOW what a toll pregnancy and childbirth take on the body, they KNOW how they developed a bond with their baby whilst it was still months from being born, they have felt the wonder of the newborn baby in their arms, maybe breastfeeding, the strength of attachment, and yet they want another woman to do it all for them and give them the baby they have born. I find it incredible that they would do that. It's so depressing.

And yes, before I am chided, I do know that not every woman feels an instant love and bond with their new baby. Doesn't mean they want to give it away though.

Robbie Williams and Ayda used a surrogate for their third (and maybe 4th?).

It's not rich, famous women who feel the need to "be kind" and make the ultimate sacrifice to help out another woman...

I feel like it is like plastic surgery - initially the preserve of the super rich and the celebs and will soon be replicated across the population.

I think Rosanna Davidson who had 14 miscarriages :-( had a surrogate for her first baby, and she isnt short of a bob or two but i dont think she has hundreds of thousands to spare. Ive always found her very annoying but her language about surrogacy was emotionally grateful and less sterile. But yeh on this side of the pond it is usually only done when the woman cant physically give birth.

So they want to start adopting and also start searching for someone to be a surrogate mother.

FFS. It's not an insurance policy.

With adoption I'm sorry to say that from what I see it is considered a back up plan and 'second rate' due to the lack of a bio connection and likely 'damaged goods' (not my wording and I can't share where I've seen it). It's sick and I hate it. These are children.

Beresiner at the Times was asked about their pursuit of commercial surrogacy in the States before they ended up with Surrogate Mother Rebecca in the U.K., by the social worker at their parental order appointment. I fear that not only is it an 'insurance policy' but a strategic way to appear to have explored all the options before buying a baby and to also appear to be truly loving because they considered adoption.

A man cannot ever understand what being pregnant is like. He may truly believe he is doing the right thing. He might be as respectful as he can towards the surrogate mother and once the child is there may very well love and care for the child.

A woman who has carried and birthed a child cannot claim ignorance.

There are plenty of British celebrities who could spend that as small change. Victoria and David Beckham for starters. And didn't Victoria Beckham suffer quite badly from endometriosis and might have difficulties with conceiving?

You’re also not allowed to pay women anything beyond ‘expenses’ so I would imagine it’s harder to find someone to be a surrogate mother too.

In my workplace, the team is reporting lots of enquiries from would-be adopters, asking if they can start the process if the surrogacy laws become less strict for them(I hear protections for surrogate mothers removed). I think lots are watching and waiting for the outcome of the law commission.

Funny how they all admit that they
'are committed to becoming parents' but want to explore this just in case adoption doesn't work for them.
So they want to start adopting and also start searching for someone to be a surrogate mother.

FFS. It's not an insurance policy.
I feel like printing of the Children's Act and referring to it during video meetings, but I'll get accused of a being meno-pausal feminist.
Oh hang on a minute......

She totally has body mass issues she’s skeletal