FFS re. Hilaria & Alec Baldwin and normalisation of surrogacy

even though that’s NOT the case

No one else’s business

Speaking of business...any idea how much a membership is to non-profit surrogacy agencies like Surrogacy U.K. or newly launched My Surrogacy Journey?

Any idea how much it costs per hour for a family lawyer to write out a surrogacy 'contract' that isn't currently enforceable in U.K. law?

Any thoughts on what 'expenses' can be charged and what can and can't be included and associated with a surrogacy pregnancy?

Have you any clue on how many billions of dollars the surrogacy industry will be worth by 2025?

And it’s ironic that you say ‘if we object’ as if the surrogate is being forced, even that’s the the case at all, but hey, let’s not put facts in that detract from your narrative

[quote OhHolyJesus]@TableFlowerss I'll ask again...

Why do you think those countries that ban both forms of surrogacy do so?

[/quote]
I’ve not disputed it can be problematic in some instances such as the one this original thread covers.

Receiving payment to carry a baby for a stranger, where the argument could be the woman felt pressure etc isn’t the same as the scenario I’ve described.

Banning it completely is pointless as if someone has enough money, they’ll find a way only it’ll be underground/off the radar where month and baby could be at significant harm!

It’s a woman’s right, to chose if she wants to be a surrogate for someone she cares about! No one else’s business

And the baby, do they have any say in this?

Should children have rights or are they gifts to be bought and sold?

[quote Thewithesarehere]@TableFlowerss
It’s a woman’s right to be a mother? I have heard it all now.
Have you ever faced a high risk pregnancy?[/quote]
I’ll correct you - It’s a woman’s right, to chose if she wants to be a surrogate for someone she cares about! No one else’s business

It’s a woman’s right to be a mother? I have heard it all now.

Ooh careful there @Thewithesarehere don't forget the menz...

Gay and single men have rights to be fathers too, in the name of 'fertility equality', they are disadvantaged you see. The poor men can't make babies on their own they need our help. Poor things, it's basically discrimination if we object to womb rental as a concept, deeply homophobic it is to suggest it's anything but a joyous and empowering experience to give babies away.

Cry me a river.

@TableFlowerss I'll ask again...

Why do you think those countries that ban both forms of surrogacy do so?

@TableFlowerss
It’s a woman’s right to be a mother? I have heard it all now.
Have you ever faced a high risk pregnancy?

A lot of relatively rich white ladies called me Karen amongst other things , on reflection people who follow him on Instagram are not my audience

Some countries ban the burka? Does that mean we should? Don’t be so ridiculous!! Women should have the choice

Some counties legalise prostitution- died that mean we should, based on that? 🙄

For a feminist board, it’s very anti women’s rights....

Epic failure to see the point of different countries adopting different laws!

The "epic failure" is yours. Your posts are getting more and more bizarre. I don't know how anyone could read OhHolyJesus's post and carry on thinking what other countries do is irrelevant

Epic failure to see the point of different countries adopting different laws!

Most of Europe ban all forms of surrogacy. India banned commercial surrogacy in 2019, allowing it only within close family members Ana to coupes with proven infertility. Thailand famously banned after an Australian convicted paedophile and his wife commissioned twins from a women living in poverty. When it was discovered that the twin boy, Gammy, had Down's syndrome he was disowned, the baby girl, Pipah, flew home with the couple Ana the mother raised Gammy with financial help from donations and charities, seeing as she never expected to be a mother and be responsible for raising a chins but she refused to abort him, at their suggestion.

Pipah has weekly lessons about why she could be alone with her father until his death last year.

There is currently some review of laws surrounding surrogacy in Kenya and there major international conversations going on, which were highlighted again by the babies abandoned in Kiev and the death of a baby in Russia.

Based on the above, why do you think surrogacy - both altruistic and commercial - are largely illegal in both developed, wealthy, European countries and in countries where their citizens live in poverty and their laws have been changed to protect women?

I got called a Karen for pointing out his privilege on Instagram I'm a bit looking forward to him reacting angrily... I've had a drink though ,tomorrow I'll be

I know it sounds dramatic but it makes me sick. Just so distasteful and utterly wrong!

They’re proposing that ‘intended parents’ be legal parents from birth. I really don’t like that. It does say they’d purpose for the surrogate to have a period of time to object but what does that mean.

The headlines are:

In Scotland a woman who has had a baby 'intended' for other people to be the parents, she has 5 weeks, postpartum to get a lawyer and submit an application for parental rights to be returned to her (as they were her's until the birth).

In England and Wales it would be 6 weeks.

So, for those of us who have experienced pregnancy and the hormonal changes after birth, with your milk kicking in and the changes in your body and mental state, you would have to be balanced and stable and confident in yourself and solid in your choice to enact that process and prepare for a court battle.

In most states in the US commercial surrogacy is legal and there are pre-birth orders which do a number of things but essentially you own the woman and the baby inside her. Commercial contracts dictate diet, the pumping of breast milk etc. Some have no-sex clauses.

The proposed model (evident in the consultation documents, the draft Bill is due our early next year) from the Law Commission is somewhere in between the US commercial model and the current model which is where the commissioning parents have to submit a parental order within the first 6 months of the baby's life, and the mother signs over those rights much later on and in the meantime a social worker assesses the parents and the home where they have custody of the child.

I think that when a couple decide to have a baby via a surrogate mother one of them should donate a kidney. If they aren’t willing to make that sacrifice/take the risk they shouldn’t ask a woman to risk her life & health for them. Yes, it’s an extreme position but you are asking the surrogate mother for so much.

If we’re taking about where my opinions come from- Personally when we decided we wanted to try for our first DC I was lucky enough to fall pregnant the first month. I couldn’t believe my luck considering it takes the average couple 6 months.

When we decided to try for our second DC, I fell pregnant the first month again. I’ve never had a miscarriage and both pregnancies were fine.

I felt I was extremely lucky and that most people aren’t that lucky, especially with both pregnancies. I never had to feel the disappointment of seeing a negative pregnancy test month after month and wondering if I’d ever fall pregnant.

I felt somewhat guilty that I was so lucky and I felt sadness for those that took a long time to conceive as the worry and stress much have been immense. I felt so sorry for those that turned out to have fertility problems and would never be able to have their own children.

I knew I was lucky and I often thought how tragic it must be for those that will never see that ‘positive’ test.

This thread prompted me to fall down a rabbit hole of articles about surrogacy.

Just had s look at the law reform consultation someone linked earlier. They’re proposing that ‘intended parents’ be legal parents from birth. I really don’t like that. It does say they’d purpose for the surrogate to have a period of time to object but what does that mean.

Choice and freedom to chose is what I believe. If a consenting adult wants to do this for a loved one then it’s no business of anyone’s

I don't know what magic spell you think you are invoking by the repetition of "it's no business of anyone’s".

Are you really so incapable of seeing the wider implications? Well clearly you are.

What other countries do/do not agree with is of no concern - what a bizarre mindset.

Some countries do things better for their citizens than us. It's a pretty routine analytical practice when governments are considering legal and social reform on a particular issue to analyse the methods adopted in other countries.