MOJ Prison Policy JR TODAY

Well depressing as it is so much sunlight. The response from some on twitter is telling. They really don't like women talking, and Judicial Review by Judicial Review hopefully winning. Lot of the usual suspects very angry today.

Why should we have to fund the challenging of any of the egregious overreach by lobby groups determined to misrepresent women's rights and the law?

It's sickening.

It’s very telling that the legislation for GRA specifically allows for biological sex to be recognised when it comes to the descent of peerages, and allows the Freemasons to exclude transmen even if they have a GRC, but seemingly did not factor in that biological sex may be important in other settings. Like when women are locked up with a rapist...

What's worse, if that's even possible at this juncture, is that the MoJ do factor bio sex into prison settings because they don't send transmen to the male estate. Not even for the much lauded validation purposes.

So they do know.

It’s very telling that the legislation for GRA specifically allows for biological sex to be recognised when it comes to the descent of peerages, and allows the Freemasons to exclude transmen even if they have a GRC, but seemingly did not factor in that biological sex may be important in other settings. Like when women are locked up with a rapist...

The MOJ look like they don't care about women prisoners

The MoJ, the Government and all those who are responsible for the GRA look not only foolish but that they have and deliberately and wilfully caused harm to women and they don't care and are determined to carry on doing so.

So their case is pretty much admitting that John Smith (to use someone's example upthread) could commit multiple sexual assaults and serve time in a men's prison, get out and apply for a GRC (which requires no surgery or hormones) and become Jane Smith, commit another crime and then be automatically sent to a woman's prison based on their new birth certificate and be locked in overnight a cell with a female prisoner.
And if they then assault that prisoner, the MOJ will not only have done no safeguarding or checks along the way but the only record they might have is of a 'female' on female assault in the prison.
Good god.

How can you risk assess something you haven't identified?

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remembering Owen and Ruth laughing - "it's just admin"

Not admin for the women sexually assaulted. But like Ruth said 'Men rape'

Good point Why.

hope they do. like FPFW say, good data is important for everyone.

2) Having a GRC is more than 'just admin'. MOJ says its a 'weighty matter' when it comes to making decisions about balancing risks

This contradicts the TRA message that was prevalent when the GRA consultation was taking place that applying for a GRC is mere admin.

It will be very interesting to see whether or not they can get information that a judge wants even though they didn't have it before.

A FOI only has to release information if it is already collected. I presume if a judge wants it they may try to collate it even if they don't have it already?

@fairplaywomen

Initial reflections after the trans prison JR hearing

1. Good data collection matters - how can there be a workable policy on how to deal with transwomen with a GRC when the MOJ doesn't even know how many there are in prison. /1

2. Having a GRC is more than 'just admin'. MOJ says its a 'weighty matter' when it comes to making decisions about balancing risks

In essence, having a GRC enables a high risk male-born sex offender to get supervised association with women without their consent /2

3. This is the first time court has considered the interactions between the GRA2004 and EA2010 single sex exceptions. Turns out its not as straightforward as Stonewall has been telling everyone.... /3

4. Judges were not impressed with the quality of the MOJ data collection and did not like the defences claim that they only have 'anecdotal' evidence of how many trans with GRC there are in prison /4

I hope the MOJ are glad @fairplaywomen
pushed them to start gathering the data they do now collect - otherwise it would have looked even worse for them

They wouldn't have any sex disaggregated data on trans prisoners or % of sex offenders if we hadn't extracted it from them /5

Thank you for keeping us all up to date

Will there be a judgement today??

I'm beginning to wonder if it's not so much that the prison service is trying to defend the indefensible but more that they're making a bad case on purpose

The poor case presentation and lack of data is strikingly similar the KB case. When people say "there is no evidence" it's fast becoming apparent that the evidence is deliberately not being collected so that nothing can be evidenced.

Which presumably is also why the census do not want to properly collect data in relation to trans people.

The MoJ might not be able to answer those final questions. seem to recall a FPFW FOI asking the same things and being told the data didn't exist. could be like Keira' case where the defence /public body doesn't have the basic data underpinning their entire policy and process

Was the category A/category B situation mentioned at any point??

FPFW put ads in prison newspapers and were contacted by loads of women. seem to recall one prisoner asking why rapists were walking around in the female gym and library. this east wing set up is a joke.

X posted with Ova

FairPlayForWomen
@fairplaywomen

Judges return /54

Wants a witness statement on statistics:
how many trans prisoners were in prison as a whole
how many of those had a GRC
how many trans prisoners are on E wing
how many in the general population of women prison /55

how many of those have a GRC
how many trans with GRC are in mens prison
how many biological women are in the men prison estate /56

What are the 'exceptional reasons' why a biological woman would be moved to the men's estate. /57

* these are questions we've been wanting answers to for years - it very good that this has been ordered my the court** /58

Thank you Chaz and all