Does anyone ever have a "are we the baddies"* moment?

Well the pirate thing was at least novel.

You are absolutely, unequivocally the baddie. Check your hat, because it's probably got a skull on it.

Oh. And more for the bingo card. Thank you!

History will look back on you in the same way it looks back on people who fearmongered about the gays and opposed LGB equality. Your friends and family likely think you're obsessed and bonkers, possibly even wondering how the person they love can possibly be so blinkered and hateful. With some of them, your relationship could be permanently destroyed. And it's not because of them, it's because of you.

You know, of course, that this is not actually like the progress of LGB rights. You are just rolling out tired old trope here Cheezecake. It is great for the bingo card though.

You're the ones succumbing to your worst impulses and unexamined prejudices. You seek out only information that confirms your biases and come running to mumsnet for reassurance from people who do the same whenever anything makes you doubt yourself.

Interestingly, a rather esteemed scholar recently conducted a study and found that 18-29 year olds in the UK were, in fact, more intolerant of other's opinions than any other age group. Particularly those aged 65+ where only 14% were intolerant.

And I find this particularly interesting because the hypocrisy of your point. There are many voices on MN, and strangely enough, quite a lot of them disagree with each other on some aspect. But we don't call each other names or threaten each other.

In fact, I would put some of the voices on MN as being some of the most informed about aspects of women's rights. You know, many of us have even attained qualifications that relate to making women's lives better in many different disciplines.

Maybe you could engage with us rather than posting with the only intent to silence discussion and shame others. That'd be nice. Some nice new papers to read, and studies, and points of view that provide some really interesting discussion points. Wouldn't you agree?

Nope.

If I am on the wrong side of the debate, so is the Hippocratic oath taken by doctors, the Geneva articles on prisoner treatment and the laws previously passed by Parliament about indecent exposure, voyeurism, death threats, freedom of expression and rape.

I am focused on female freedom, rights and safeguarding (especially of children). That, oddly enough, includes people with body dysphoria who would benefit from better medical processes and decent research rather than the shitshow demonstrated by the Tavistock whistleblowers.

I will never believe that sterilising children is right. I will never accept women's distress to be acceptable collateral damage.

Also worth noting the perception of standing up for women's rights, for vulnerable women, for women's equality - as a hobby, just a malicious and mischievous fixation on annoying trans people.

When women are so subordinated in your view that every single thing women do is always all about people born male, you can't see women having an inner life or capacity to have sincere concern for each other and you see women's issues and voices as so utterly unimportant you can't understand why anyone would spend time on them....?

You really have a bit of a problem with misogyny.

Your friends and family likely think you're obsessed and bonkers

No, they don't not a single one of them - young, old, male, female - every last one of them is horrified by the TRA agenda and the devastation it is trying to wreak on women's rights, the decimation of single sex spaces, refuges, prisons, the assault on women's freedom of speech, the doxxing and attempts to get women fired from their employment, the wholesale abuse and threats of sexual violence directed against women and the danger and inherent unfairness now being perpetrated against women's sports.

They to a woman, man, boy and girl consider the TRAs and their simpering allies to be the obsessed ones and dangerous to boot, and the same goes for those in my friendship circle and my colleagues at work. You are mistaken if you think that the majority of the public support or agree with your agenda.

Your actions make life materially harder and more hostile for trans people.

yeah... Like you really have seen the thousands of death threats, rape threats, threats of violence, threats of erasure coming from women ... oh wait.... nothing like that? Yet, we see that coming from some groups all the time. I think you might want to simply look at when ever Jo Rowling tweets anything as a sense check there.

And materially harder. It is actually the intention of the people who are fighting for the rights of women and children to actually make sure that our lives are not made 'materially harder' by conflicting rights issues. Again, I encourage you to read these threads more as you will see that despite the falsehoods and misinformation you have stated we are spreading, those actually come from lobby groups who represent trans people. They stated that it is actually transphobic to state that there is potential for rights of women and children to be negatively impacted in the adoption of any rights that trans people want.

I wonder why they would spread those falsehoods and misinformation?

You are obviously well informed on the topic, maybe you could fill us in. With some statistical proof or at least modelling?

blueberry genuinely, are you willing to answer a question or two in a way that tries to communicate truthfully and accurately what is actually meant by the response? And stick through follow-up questions?

Or is that yet more tumbleweed I see...

You seek out only information that confirms your biases and come running to mumsnet for reassurance from people who do the same whenever anything makes you doubt yourself.

Demonstrably incorrect, in my case.
I have many many questions that I have asked TRAs or trans people themselves on here and they have failed to answer. Just disappear once I question what they actually mean. This has been going on for years. There is zero desire or willingness on that side to actually try and communicate things that I explain why I don't understand.

Are you going to come back and back any of that up or are you just a plopper?

What's your view in transwomen in women's sports?

Male rapists in female prisons?

Penises in female only spaces like refuges, changing rooms and naked spas?

Giving pubescent teenagers off label drugs which will, at best, stunt their brain and bone development?

How do you define a woman in a non-circular way? How would you discuss what a female gender identity is without resorting to stereotypes?

Because if you can't back up anything you say, then I will just assume you are another misogynist with no argument, which will only serve to further make me think that the answer to the 'are we the baddies' question, is a resounding 'no'.

I am obsessed, well probably facinated is a better description.

I never thought I get to actually see mass hysteria, cult grooming, a blatent try for reasserting total male dominance, female bullying through submission, instititional capture, everything to do with this moment facinates me.

I never though Id get to see something like this playing out through society.

BlueberryCheezecake. Delightful as usual!

You've made a literal hobby out of villifying an oppressed minority group, you are either complicit or actively involved in fearmongering, spreading falsehoods and misinformation (even if you don't personally recognise it as such because you've fallen down the rabbithole and into an echo chamber), and in campaigning to roll back the small gains they've made in equality and recognition.

Echo chambers, eh? I think you actually need to read more threads on this board. You see, we do actually read extensively and we read the source material. We do not actually rely on a 'safe' dissemination by a self appointed 'though leader' usually acquiring 'influencer' status on a social media platform.

And I would be really wary of stating that people on this board are spreading falsehoods and misinformation. Let's see:

• who is telling everyone that sex is not binary, like there are more than two sexes?
• who is telling everyone that sex can be changed and that if a person simply believes that they are of the other sex, they are to be believed and accommodated for all intents and purposes?
• who is stating that hormones used to block puberty are completely reversible?
• who is stating that males can fairly compete against females?

Shall I go on? I am pretty sure that anyone reading this thread will understand that there are many, many more examples of completely unevidenced claims that are being made and they are not be the people on this board.

I do spend my life agonising over weather Im doing the right thing and what people think of me.
On this issue tho, never not for a second have I thought the GC position is either wrong factually, practically or morraly, not for one second.
Its so overwhelmingly obvious from any angle that its the one thing I am sure about.

Your friends and family likely think you're obsessed and bonkers

Obsessed? Maybe a bit.

They largely thought the things being done in the name of trans rights were the bonkers bit, to the extent that they didn't believe those things were happening.

Right up until a much loved young relative had an unnecessary mastectomy in pursuit of an ideal.

www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/notes/division/3/16/20/7

Is this misinformation @BlueberryCheezecake?

This has been in the Equality Act since 1975.

Oh for pete's sake.

You've made a literal hobby out of villifying an oppressed minority group,

Standing up for women

you are either complicit or actively involved in fearmongering, spreading falsehoods and misinformation

sharing facts

and in campaigning to roll back the small gains they've made in equality and recognition.

Because those gains were taken by rolling back the small gains women had made in equality and recognition.

Your actions make life materially harder and more hostile for trans people.

Our actions being to point out and stand up against the making of life materially harder and considerably more hostile for women, and it's far worse and more overtly and actually violent for them

You are the bigots.

You might want to check your understanding of that word, and who is unable to cope with other views.

You're the ones succumbing to your worst impulses and unexamined prejudices.

And yet it isn't GC women who are describing sexual fantasies of knifing people, waving swords and barbed wire wrapped bats and threatening to rape and kerb stomp......

History will look back on you in the same way it looks back on people who fearmongered about the gays and opposed LGB equality.

I'm LGB. I fought against section 28. This is utter bollocks. It is not the same. Gay rights wanted to take nothing from anyone else.

Your friends and family likely think you're obsessed and bonkers

No, they mostly agree and are horrified at what is happening to women in prisons, refuges, rape crisis centres, what's being said to women who dare to mention women's rights, pipe bomb threats, yada yada... their response is mostly 'how the fuck did this happen?' rather than agreement with it.

Check your hat, because it's probably got a skull on it.

Can we try to at least pretend we're all grown ups?

Blimey Cheezecake thats a rather large dose of hyperbole. Are you always this sure about everything.

Maybe they're a little angsty as they need to pee. After all, that's what it's all about right. 🤔

We are baddies because we don’t agree with women being locked in prison cells with rapists.

You are the goodies because you think rapists should have access to rape victims.

That’s what you goodies have encouraged and you think you’re in the right.

Some would see that as very disturbing.

Blimey Cheezecake thats a rather large dose of hyperbole. Are you always this sure about everything.

My hat is a very jaunty feminist pirate hat, so yes.
The rest of that post was shite, though.

BlueberryCheezecake

Incorrect. But it's always good to play the victim right. Without any consideration for women and children. Best get your eyesight checked and take a close look at your own hat. It's looking worn out with all those lies and misrepresentation. ☺️

Yes, you are the baddies. You've made a literal hobby out of villifying an oppressed minority group, you are either complicit or actively involved in fearmongering, spreading falsehoods and misinformation (even if you don't personally recognise it as such because you've fallen down the rabbithole and into an echo chamber), and in campaigning to roll back the small gains they've made in equality and recognition. Your actions make life materially harder and more hostile for trans people. You are the bigots. You're the ones succumbing to your worst impulses and unexamined prejudices. You seek out only information that confirms your biases and come running to mumsnet for reassurance from people who do the same whenever anything makes you doubt yourself. History will look back on you in the same way it looks back on people who fearmongered about the gays and opposed LGB equality. Your friends and family likely think you're obsessed and bonkers, possibly even wondering how the person they love can possibly be so blinkered and hateful. With some of them, your relationship could be permanently destroyed. And it's not because of them, it's because of you. You are absolutely, unequivocally the baddie. Check your hat, because it's probably got a skull on it.