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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Does anyone ever have a "are we the baddies"* moment?

662 replies

Menstrualcycledisplayteam · 27/02/2021 21:39

  • it's a Mitchell & Webb sketch, probably on Youtube.

I'm a bit disheartened this week, if I'm honest. I sometimes feel like this is a fight that we're just not going to win. Two main things recently, one personal, one geo-political I suppose.

On the geo-political level, I look across the Pond to the US, where the only people who are saying the same things as us are frigging Rand Paul and Marjorie Taylor Greene, neither of which are people that I associate my politics as being anywhere close to. There is just no bloody way that the Left, my home, will align with us now, given who our "allies" are in the States. They just can't, even those that agree with us will never position themselves as having the same concerns as Marjorie Q-Anon Parkland Taylor Bloody Greene.

The second is personal. I work for a large global organisation in a senior role. We had our Global Leadership "Away Day" a few weeks ago (on Teams, of course) and there was a presentation from some US colleagues on LGBTQ+, being able to bring your whole self to work, that kind of thing, from two gay colleagues, one lesbian one gay. So far, so good - absolutely the right thing for my organisation to be doing. Then they got onto pronouns and how everyone should start every meeting asking what pronouns attendees want to have used and encouraging everyone to put them in our email sign-offs. I'm never going to do that, but I can already see it happening around the organisation (particularly the US, but some of the easily led/want to be noticed over here will soon follow suit).

My husband won't listen to me talk about this sort of stuff anymore - he agrees with me, but says that it is basically like someone saying they "don't agree with all that Black Lives Matter stuff". My best friend works with young people and whilst I've tried to approach it with her very gently, including all of the stats about single sex spaces and how women and children's safety is negatively affected as a result, her reaction is that she gets all of that but she works with children every day who are tortured by their own bodies.

I know that our concerns are justified, I know that women's safety/opportunities are going to be negatively affected but - if I'm completely honest with myself - I just can't see how we're going to stop it. Julie Bindel has a tweet pinned to her feed which is basically that the misogyny at the moment is like a tidal wave and that's how it feels.

I'm not sure why I'm writing this really - certainly not to bring anyone down but there's no-one I can speak to about this in real life. How do you even go about discussing these things when, in my work at least, it would probably get me fired and everyone around me in my personal life has either bought into the nonsense hook line and sinker, or just doesn't want to hear it?

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DialSquare · 27/02/2021 22:20

@Menstrualcycledisplayteam

Thanks *@DialSquare*. I think I just have to keep schtum to be honest, and I hate admitting that to myself. I'm fairly vocal about most things - I've always been open about my politics, but this just feels like an opinion that cannot be shared (or at least not without significant risk).

Do you have people around you that share your views (or at least are willing to discuss them)?

To be honest, everyone I've spoken to about it agrees with me. That does make it easier. But I'm quite old and from a working class background and most people I know never went to university. I work in a finance based role in Insurance which is not a particularly captured industry. I've only ever voted Labour so I am politically homeless over this which pisses me off.
ArabellaScott · 27/02/2021 22:20

Yes. I think it's healthy to question one's beliefs, to every so often check if things have shifted.

I will happily read other viewpoints/evidence/discuss in good faith, and would love to read a convincing argument to say that 'sex is a spectrum' or 'TWAW' or why women should give up our sex-based rights.

I'm not interested in 'winning' or being right. I'm interested in fairness, and protecting and helping women and children.

Wrongsideofhistorymyarse · 27/02/2021 22:16

Once every now and then.

But then I remember who's making the death threats. And which side persuades people like my niece to take testosterone that may shorten her life.

Mrsmorton · 27/02/2021 22:14

Nope.

MrsBrunch · 27/02/2021 22:13

It might have to get worse before it's gets better Sad

nauticant · 27/02/2021 22:13

All. Of. The. Time.

But then I remember that watchful waiting is far more likely to benefit teenage girls having an identity crisis than giving them treatments that will lead to them being sterilised and having their sexual function removed/compromised.

When I balance people being scandalised by my views against avoiding irreversible damage to children, I find I can sleep easily at night.

HighHeelBoots · 27/02/2021 22:12

Working with children who are tortured by their bodies must be tough but how to treat them should be guided by research and not by lobby groups.
Pretending they are the opposite sex can only lead to more problems

StillFemale · 27/02/2021 22:11

Throughout history there’s been many times when the moral stance has been underground and not supported by the majority. I’d provide examples but those who monitor our posts would get this post deleted..

midgedude · 27/02/2021 22:10

I will tell people what I think

I don't get many who disagree at all

And there is only one friendship that it may have affected ( they may also just be wary of my close relationship with their male partner)

, but I feel that I am best away from someone who supports children transitioning .

But that might be easier for me as I see that kind of support as a personal attack on who I am ,namely someone who lived through and out the other side of denying my sex. To think that that person would think it reasonable to sterilise me just because I don't fit the mould quite puts me off them!

Menstrualcycledisplayteam · 27/02/2021 21:57

Thanks @DialSquare. I think I just have to keep schtum to be honest, and I hate admitting that to myself. I'm fairly vocal about most things - I've always been open about my politics, but this just feels like an opinion that cannot be shared (or at least not without significant risk).

Do you have people around you that share your views (or at least are willing to discuss them)?

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JorjaSays · 27/02/2021 21:54

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DialSquare · 27/02/2021 21:52

Nope I never do. I KNOW we are not the baddies. Particularly when it comes to safeguarding and children. In fact, I really believe the tide is turning. The HOL decision was immense. Most people agree with us and more and more sunlight is what is helping.