Men don't want TW

Very much this. In the 70s and 80s the 'gender bending' popstars did so as men, whether straight, bi or gay. Why has this whole 'debate' become centred on us awful 'exclusionary' women rather than those awful exclusionary men? 'Trans Exclusionary Average Males' or something like that. They're the ones who should be being pressured about inclusivity in their toilet spaces and so on - instead they're probably relieved in their quietly homophobic hearts that the 'GNC' males are now expected to go elsewhere.

Yep. 2 categories. Men and not men.

The men were astonished that the women did not accept that the person should now use the female loos from that moment

I have noticed that transwomen seem to expect automatic acceptance fom women when they transition and are surprised when it doesn't happen.

Men don't accept TW as men but equally they don't accept them as women neither, not really when only 2% would consider having relations with them. They just want them to be someone else's (womens) problem.

Everyone said the same as me whilst I took ages to type that

I think for some men, stating TWAW further cements their view that they are 'proper' men and men who aren't 'proper men' are not-men - just like women!

Men have been using girl to refer to boys and men who fail to conform to cultural standards of masculinity for a long time. Run/jump/throw/cry like a girl. Don't be such a girl. These aren't compliments. TWAW is a logical progression of this attitude IMO. Males who don't live up to expectations aren't proper men. They're seen as inferior, just like women are. I can see why it makes sense to some of these men that transwomen are women - or more accurately, not men.

Exactly my experience

Man at work announced intention to transition, first stage was wearing skirt to work

The men were astonished that the women did not accept that the person should now use the female loos from that moment

She was also not comfortable with putting herself into female spaces.

I had this lightbulb moment too - they perceive anything “not manly enough” as lesser, and lesser = women.

You know, those support humans, not the proper default human (who is always male). The support humans can budge up and be kind and accept the unmanly males. They won’t mind - and if they do, they are nasty meanies we don’t need to concern ourselves with.

Though I agree motivations are likely to be different:

• Some men won't want GNC men to be classed as men
• Some women will accept GNC men as women to 'be kind'
• Some of both are busy being 'woke'
• Some are so non critical of thinking they believe the pseudo science drummed up to support the approach (and probably flat earth, and 5G causes covid etc)

I'm not sure whether some of these types care whether TW are accepted as women, just that their dividing line is 'proper men' and others. Non-men, as eg the Green Party would have it.

susanna

I think you are absolutely spot on

For clarity of the 'they' the full quote was:
However the 'TWAW' brigade wouldn't go with your approach because they want us to constrain our language and give over our spaces. They don't want gender non conforming men to be accepted as men. they want them to be accepted as women. That's where it all goes wrong.

TWAW comes not only from some men, but also women.