An inclusive way to be gender critical?

I'm pretty sure this relies on question begging as well as sleight of hand between different meanings of 'woman'

Yes.

It's very very simple. If you answer the question "Are you a woman" yes, that's your gender identity

I'm pretty sure this relies on question begging as well as sleight of hand between different meanings of 'woman'.

Trans women and non-trans women suffer from sexism and misogyny

Why on you insisting on calling women ," non trans women"? As i mentioned earlier, all you need to doto honour everyone is to name women, women, and name transpeople, trans. These are both accurate descriptors.

It's very very simple. If you answer the question "Are you a woman" yes, that's your gender identity

Only if you embrace that way of thinking, or that particular ideology. You cannot force an identity onto someone in order to bolster your own.

Your own disbelief in scientific evidence is not my responsbility. If you can answer yes to the question "Am I a woman?" then your gender identity is woman, by definition

Only in your mind. A woman is an adult human female; nothing to do with identity. Rather to do with material reality, acknowledged the world over - for good or for ill ( especially if born a a human female in some countries).

It is like suggesting that being black is an identity. I'm sure there are some cultural and social aspects to the black experience which people hang their identity hat on, but being black in itself is just a statement of fact. An obvious material, physical reality.

Identities shift and change throughout one's life. They are not set in stone. An identity is something, or a quality, you associate yourself with; which you relate to in some way.

Every reputable international and national psychological and medical organisation

Every reputable medical association doesn't believe in gender identity ideology. But they do pander to activists. I promise you, that many (probably most) medical doctors have little truck with it. It doesn't have the solemn status you think it does.

That still makes no sense. If anything it makes less sense are saying the same thing in both statements.

@MissBarbary

Sorry, - a typo i f your sex matches your answer then you aren't transgender. If it does, then you are*

Should be:

if your sex matches your answer then you aren't transgender. If it does, then you aren't.

@Ereshkigalangcleg
No. You are conflating TRA pseudoscience about wrong bodies for lady brains with me simply knowing I am female. I don't have a "gender identity" in any other way, and I do not believe in them.

Every reputable international and national psychological and medical organisation are not staffed by pseudoscientists. They are not "TRAs." How the evidence informs activism is another matter.

It's very very simple. If you answer the question "Are you a woman" yes, that's your gender identity. If your sex matches your answer then you aren't transgender. If it does, then you are

I don't understand this. Breaking it down

"Are you a woman" ?

Yes, I am.

"That's your gender identity"

so my "gender identity" is "woman"

"If your sex matches your answer then you aren't transgender"
so my sex and my gender identity is "woman" , so I'm not trans

If it does, then you are what is "it" ?

If your sex matches your answer then you aren't transgender.

Wait. Matches what?

It's very very simple. If you answer the question "Are you a woman" yes, that's your gender identity. If your sex matches your answer then you aren't transgender. If it does, then you are.

If ‘woman’ is not attached to sex, or stereotypes as you suggest then I don’t understand what it is or why I would identify with it.

Trans men and non-trans women share many of the same issues around reproduction.

News just in: they're both biologically FEMALE, unlike MTF trans people.

Why you think that this erases your sex or the oppression rooted in reproductive rights, I don't know. Trans men and non-trans women share many of the same issues around reproduction. Trans women and non-trans women suffer from sexism and misogyny.

Only female people suffer sexism on the grounds of being female, and misogyny. MTF trans people suffer other things, but not those things. I would rather concern myself with women and girls, males can advocate for their own rights, as they always have.

Your own disbelief in scientific evidence is not my responsbility. If you can answer yes to the question "Am I a woman?" then your gender identity is woman, by definition.

No. You are conflating TRA pseudoscience about wrong bodies for lady brains with me simply knowing I am female. I don't have a "gender identity" in any other way, and I do not believe in them.

I’ll still not so kindly decline to assume a gender identity even if it’s not a wind up though

Same here.

@Ereshkigalangcleg
No one is interested in reading your "multiple cites" DadJoke. Explain it in your own words, or not. I don't have a gender identity. Please explain why you consider everyone does, with or without reference to your "cites".

Your own disbelief in scientific evidence is not my responsbility. If you can answer yes to the question "Am I a woman?" then your gender identity is woman, by definition.

I've pointed you at the scientific literature - that's quite enough. I've been there with antivaxxers and and climate change deniers, and I've learned that's a journey they have to make themselves.

@jellyfrizz

Can you see that by de-linking woman from biology, you are taking away my identity. Using your definition of woman I do not know what my gender identity is. What am I supposed to be identifying with if not biology or gender stereotypes?

It's very very simple. If you answer the question "Are you a woman" yes, that's your gender identity. If your sex matches your answer then you aren't transgender. If it does, then you are. Gender identity isn't gender roles or gender sterotypes. People don't notice their gender identity as a thing if it matches their sex, any more than they notice proprioception unless it's pointed out to them.

Why you think that this erases your sex or the oppression rooted in reproductive rights, I don't know. Trans men and non-trans women share many of the same issues around reproduction. Trans women and non-trans women suffer from sexism and misogyny.

@Ereshkigalangcleg that’s why I assumed wind up! I’ll still not so kindly decline to assume a gender identity even if it’s not a wind up though, think we all have enough real problems without having to chuck in that too. Besides I have enough of an identity crisis over whether I should use the long version of my name or the short version when introducing myself without having to decided what gender I am too

I sure as hell don’t have a gender identity, no one has been able to prove to me that gender even exists. Are you just on the wind up or are you really that blind?

Having conversed with DadJoke on this topic before, his views on this appear to be becoming more extremist.

No one is interested in reading your "multiple cites" DadJoke. Explain it in your own words, or not. I don't have a gender identity. Please explain why you consider everyone does, with or without reference to your "cites".

Two questions: what are we supposed to be considering? That gender is not sex? That gender has nothing to do with single sex spaces? That transactivists don't listen when we tell them that for 1 millionth time?

Second question: are you considering what others said here? Or is this a one way 'debate'?

I think you answered your second question there.

“Their are multiple cites in the paper. Follow them. It's like asking for cites for the statement "every person has a sexuality." You really don't need me to do that work for you.”

So you believe someone’s sweeping statement “everyone has a gender identity” despite the fact that several women (for this purposes we’ll keep the real definition of woman as an adult biological female) telling you that they don’t have a gender identity? I sure as hell don’t have a gender identity, no one has been able to prove to me that gender even exists. Are you just on the wind up or are you really that blind?

I will leave you all now (at least for a while) for us all to consider fully what I've said.

Two questions: what are we supposed to be considering? That gender is not sex? That gender has nothing to do with single sex spaces? That transactivists don't listen when we tell them that for 1 millionth time?

Second question: are you considering what others said here? Or is this a one way 'debate'?