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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

An inclusive way to be gender critical?

882 replies

pensivepigeon · 27/02/2021 07:57

My thoughts on gender and sex are thus:

Gender is a social construct. It is how society and individuals view the presentation of the sexes - in fashion, interests and work roles. Whereas sex is biological, we cannot change it even though we might surgically change our appearance and take artificial hormones which affect our bodily functions.

However because gender is a social construct and we are part of society we can define it. I define gender as

Female = adhering or not adhering to traditional stereotypes regarding names, fashion, interests and work roles.
Male= adhering or not adhering to traditional stereotypes regarding names, fashion, interests and work roles.

If everyone took this on board it would mean safe single sex spaces could be preserved, as people could present themselves however they want, wear what they want but use the single sex space appropriate for their sex without conflict. Uniforms would offer everyone both traditional female and male options which either sex could wear. Ditto with sports, competing takes place within the appropriate sex classes but competitors can wear either the traditional male or female competition uniforms. There would be no confusion and need to agonise over language when providing medical care.

Taking this stance stance means I have no problem when it comes to saying I am of female sex with a female gender.

So am I gender critical? Is this inclusive?

OP posts:
ByGrabtharsHammerWhatASavings · 27/02/2021 08:19

I'm sorry OP, I've read your post 3 times but I'm really not sure what you're trying to say. I agree with your premise about gender and sex being different, I agree with your conclusion about everyone being free to dress as they please whilst still segregating based on sex in some circumstances, but your argument in the middle totally lost me. You want to redefine gender to mean "male/female" instead of "masculine/feminine" and then redefine "male/female" to mean "anybody regardless of how they dress"? I don't see how that helps protect single sex spaces? Do you just mean that men need to be more inclusive by accepting feminine men in their spaces, and that would eliminate the demand by feminine men to enter women's spaces? If so then yes I agree that men should be more inclusive to other men, but it won't reduce demand to enter our spaces because for a decent number of transitioning men the goal is to make women feel uncomfortable or to feel "validated". Maybe some are motivated by a genuine fear that they will be unsafe in male spaces, and would be happy to use male spaces if they could feel confident the other men there would be welcoming and inclusive, but I think they're in the minority. Apologies if I interpreted your OP wrong.

pensivepigeon · 27/02/2021 08:18

@MsMarvellous,

What are female fashion and interests

Whatever fashion interests belong to a person who is female.

Can you not see how regressive stereotypes like the ones you say should be definitions are

Note what I said where I gave my definitions of adhering to or not adhering to traditional stereotypes. my point is gender is socially constructed and we are part of society and can define this.

OP posts:
Daca · 27/02/2021 08:18

You are also using ‘female’ for both social roles and reproductive function, so likely to cause confusion.

I don’t see how what you say is more ‘inclusive’ than most GC positions. At the end of the day, a male can’t become female, certainly not by self-declaration, and if you include males in the category of female, the category itself no longer makes sense. I’ve gone through the arguments many times but there is no way around this basic fact. Women can either accept it or be nice and embrace their status as illogical doormats. Sorry.

Meceme · 27/02/2021 08:16

Great. I think there is only sex. I don't believe in the concept of gender. Everything outside sex is personality.

MsMarvellous · 27/02/2021 08:14

What are female fashion and interests. Are you saying I am not female because I wear doc martens, combats, hoodies, have short hair, like driving, F1 and doing my own DIY?

Can you not see how regressive stereotypes like the ones you say should be definitions are? We should be breaking down these stereotypes not reinforcing them.

A man who likes make up and dresses and sewing is no less a man or male any more than I am any less a woman or female for not liking them.

pensivepigeon · 27/02/2021 08:12

@Meceme, yes, that is my point. Smile

OP posts:
Meceme · 27/02/2021 08:09

But I am a woman who has short hair, wears only jeans and boots. My sex is female and my gender is female. Presentation does not equate with gender.
Stereotypes are regressive and should not be encouraged.

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