Janice Turner on Rise Brighton and refuges for women

@FindTheTruth - oh yes, that silly petition rule.

Maybe just post the words with no link?

@stumbledin I did think about starting a new thread but then I worried that @mnhq would move it to the petitions board and as you say this topic is about much more, affecting women's rights everywhere It belongs in FWR. Might try it

We're just back in that vicious circle. Government refers to exemptions under the EA.

So called experts than start saying this means women only includes trans women ...

And so it goes on.

Why cant then just spell it out once and for all.

In a way it is a shame that the petition fell into the trap of using the current nu-speak instead of sticking with how they started out, talking about women. "gender neutral" allows councils and others to ignore what the petition is actually about. Sex specific.

By the way , thanks for this update. But actually think this should have been a new thread as it is much more than being about Rise. They were just the latest example.

Stonewalled.

Single GENDER provision isn’t going to be much use to a woman traumatised by abuse or rape from a man is it?

It's a disappointing government response and as you say, ignores single sex exemptions. It needs 100k signatures before GENDER provision vs SEX provision will be debated in parliament. even then will MPs have the freedom to speak the truth about Hypervigilance, data and facts? or toe the Stonewall line.

A 'gender neutral' service would be one that makes adjustment for gender - so would provide additional resources for feminine individuals to recognise their oppression and mean the final service is neutral to the effects of gender.

What this is is gender blind services.

And yes, I accept it doesn't make sense to base these services on gender not sex.

Services must adhere to the law under the Equality Act for single sex provisions (www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/contents).

And
Services commissioned under the new duty should be meet Government and the domestic abuse sector quality standards – which include a commitment that support in safe accommodation should be provided in single-gender settings.

Probably lays out the government’s position on this doesn’t it. Somehow I don’t think they’ve interpreted the Single Sex provisions to conclude that you can use that exemption. Happy to be proved wrong?!

Stonewalled.

Single GENDER provision isn’t going to be much use to a woman traumatised by abuse or rape from a man is it?

Here's the government response

The Government has responded to the petition – “Require local authorities to fund specific domestic abuse services for women”.

Government responded:

Domestic Abuse is a form of Violence Against Women and Girls (VAWG) and the Government recognises that there is need for specific services for women. Its scale and impact warrant a dedicated strategy.

The Government recognises that domestic abuse is a gendered crime. Over two million adults suffer domestic abuse each year with women twice as likely to be victims. We recognise too that the vast majority of severe injury and domestic homicide victims are women (www.gov.uk/government/statistics/domestic-abuse-in-england-and-wales-november-2020).

No one should have to suffer the pain of this abhorrent crime. That is why this Government has made tackling domestic abuse and supporting victims a priority.

Since 2014 we have invested £205 million in support for domestic abuse safe accommodation services – including £125 million for the new local authority duty (included in the Domestic Abuse Act) in 2021/22.

In addition, we have provided £1.5 million for migrant victims, £6.4 million for the National Domestic Abuse Helpline since 2016, over £20 million in frontline and support services for victims of domestic abuse, and £17 million over three years (2017/18 – 2019/20) for support through Police and Crime Commissioners (PCCs) and local authorities.

For 2021/22, in addition to their core funding, PCCs were provided a further £9 million specifically for domestic abuse victim support services and £27 million to recruit more Independent Sexual Violence Advisors and Independent Domestic Violence Advisors.

We know how important high-quality support is to helping victims to recover from the trauma of domestic abuse and to move on with their lives. We agree that tailored support is vital to ensuring women receive the right and appropriate types of support and we expect all services commissioned to be gender-informed. Services must adhere to the law under the Equality Act for single sex provisions (www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/contents).

The Domestic Abuse Act 2021 (www.legislation.gov.uk/nia/2021/2/contents) includes a new duty on local authorities to assess the accommodation-based support needs of all victims and commission appropriate support services to meet those needs.

To accompany the new duties on local authorities within the Domestic Abuse Act the Government will set out its clear expectations in Statutory Guidance with the aim of ensuring all victims of domestic abuse have access to the right support within safe accommodation when they need it.

The Guidance will be clear that in assessing local needs, local authorities should use the expertise and knowledge of local and national specialist domestic abuse services to support in identifying and understanding the level and types of needs. The Guidance will also be clear that support should be provided by experienced and knowledgeable specialist providers, charities and other voluntary organisations whose purpose is to provide support to victims of domestic abuse.

Services commissioned under the new duty should be meet Government and the domestic abuse sector quality standards – which include a commitment that support in safe accommodation should be provided in single-gender settings.

The Government will continue to work closely with local authorities, the domestic abuse sector and the Domestic Abuse Commissioner as the duty is implemented, to ensure that support is delivered in the right way.

Domestic abuse is a high-prevalence, high-harm form of Violence Against Women and Girls (VAWG). Its scale and impact warrant a dedicated strategy. This does not mean we consider domestic abuse to be in any way separate from VAWG, nor intend to stop classifying it as VAWG. Indeed, many forms of VAWG take place within the context of domestic abuse.

By developing two complementary VAWG and domestic abuse strategies, this ensures sufficient focus is placed on existing and lesser understood forms of VAWG, as well as new and emerging forms, whilst providing scope to tackle the wide range of ways in which domestic abuse manifests.

The dual strategy approach will serve to redouble the Government’s efforts to tackle violence against women and girls.

We are currently considering all of the evidence submitted during the recent Call for Evidence and we will use this to inform our approach.

Ministry of Housing, Communities and Local Government

The Petitions Committee will take a look at this petition and its response. They can press the government for action and gather evidence. If this petition reaches 100,000 signatures, the Committee will consider it for a debate.

The Committee is made up of 11 MPs, from political parties in government and in opposition. It is entirely independent of the Government. Find out more about the Committee: petition.parliament.uk/help#petitions-committee

JustTurtles - I think the level of cuts is probably similar to previous years. Its a sad fact that the trans issues has made more aware of what has been the steady erosion of women's services.

Although I think (without knowing the actual amounts) the cut to 3 refuges in one area is probably a horrible record.

Transactivism, not transactivists.

She's brilliant. Nails it every time.

She is very astute.

I don't think anyone is blaming trans people for this. However, I think there is little doubt that part of the reason that this is happening is due to an increasing climate of dismissal of the reality of the women's experiences and lives, and of the need for specialist services. Trans activists have certainly stoked that fire.

sorry type as in hurry!

Not "it is just about trans" but:

It is NOT just about trans (it is about men)

I know because it is mumsnet every body wants to hang everything on the trans issue. But in fact here it is a side show.

the defuning of of women only projects began decades ago.

Please know your history.

This started almost from the time WLM established the need for women only services.

This is why these dry excercises in procurement do not place any value on women only because as a concept it never ever became part of political thought.

Do any of you know, have you ever checked whether there used to be local refuge in your area and it got defunded or taken over by a Housing Association or hostel provider.

So whilst this article is good, it is historically inaccurate.

It is because the concept of women only never took root in the establishment ie men, that the trans narrative of sex is irrelevant took hold so easily in the main stream.

So the whole sale undermining of women groups and services has been happening around us all for decades.

I was part of a women's group that lost funding in the late 80s because we were told the concept of women only was redundant.

I am as gender critical as anyone. But also, if you dont know your history you dont learn from it. And it you dont learn from it you repeat the same mistakes and / or under estimate your enemy.

It is just about trans. It is about the patriarchy, and men's disrespect for women as having any value or having opinions and ideas of any value.

@highame - hear hear to that!!

whatsnewpussycat you certainly have something there and I would add that the transagenda has put women in a position where they know they have to sort out their own rights before looking at someone else's. No point in chucking the blame at women. Take our language, take our space, we sometimes start hurling shit. If we feel threatened we will react, anyone who thinks we are a passive sex, is using our stereotype as fact......that would be a very silly supposition

But is is luxury beliefs jj, privileged, misogynist men making decisions, which have no consequence for them personally, just to virtue signal and make women suffer.
Now you're upset because they've made trans people collateral damage too? Welcome to the fucking club. Go whine at Stonewall. They caused this

I would be only too relieved if anybody who needed a refuge from DV or IPV had the combination of a physical space and appropriate support services that they need. I should think that there is sufficient money to provide adequately niche services to address the need of so many demographics rather than the current ghastly competition (9 families for every refuge space) that is a mute testimony to how many underserved people there are in this arena.

@jj1968 I don't think it can possibly be argued that Janice Turner is right wing or not a supporter of women. Nor do I hear her blaming transpeople. Unfortunately, what has happened to Rise, is an outcome of the "no debate" mantra, which disallows proper consideration and consultation around these issues. The blunt approach leads those who don't care but who have power, to give what they think will resolve an issue - "gender neutral, there you go - everyone is happy"!! This is why we need to be able to discuss properly in public and for all voices to be able to be heard.

Well it probably won't surprise anyone here but I think that's an appalling piece. Firstly the concept of luxury beliefs, whilst it has some truth, is a right wing idea intended to undermine the demands of people of colour and the working class . The reason it has some truth is that it's a luxury belief to think that the war on drugs has had a positive impact on poor communities, or that the police are not a racist institution. It completely undermines the demands and experiences of the tens if not hundreds of thousands of working class black people who came out onto the streets in support of Black Lives Matter. But that's perhaps what you'd expect in a right wing newspaper that seeks to undermine any grassroots demands.

The closure of these services, in particular RISE, is a disaster for trans people along with all the other women who sued their services. RISE are an explicitly trans welcoming services in an area with a disproportionate number of trans people. Monklands Women's Aid are also trans inclusive. Trans people will be harmed by these decisions.

To attempt to blame this on trans peole is disgusting. As anyone who how followed funding patterns in the VAWG sector would know, there has been growing pressure to make services gender neutral - not to include trans people (who in most cases were already included) but to include male identified men - and this push has not come from trans people but from men's organisations. Women's Aid and others have spoken of this worrying trend more than once. This is why these services have lost funding.

A second factor which Turner conveniently ignores is that this is the result of marketisation of public services and the resulting contract culture which has plunged services into desperate insecurity for over two decades as well as lingering austerity. If there is a need for mens services, and there may well be, there should be funding introduced in addition to successful ongoing services, rather than smashing up existing provision with a re-tendering exercise no doubt designed to try and do it all on the cheap. And in my experience the results of these tendering rounds, which make everyone terrified because often their own salary is on the line, are frequently far more to do with corruption and nepotism than ideology. Often, although thankfully not in this case, they are used to bring private sector sharks into the market.

To completely ignore these factors and instead blame trans people based on something that is largely happening in Canada, not here, is not just deplorable but deeply damaging to the very services she claims to support. This is not the story they want told, these decisons have nothing to do with trans people and will harm trans people along with the many women and LGB people also affected. All it serves to do is distract people from what's really happened and plunge them against their will into the centre of a controversey they really don't need at the moment. If people genuinely want to help then instead of sharing this article and weaponising the loss of these services as part of on ongoing culture war then go to the twitter feeds of RISE and Monklands, donate to the crowdfunders, sign petitions etc and take your cue from them not the right wing press who are no supporters of funding women's services properly.

But don't the chosen service providers have single sex refuge places but also have a place for gay men who are the victims of DV? The only difference between the two is that Rise did not cover all DV groups. The successful group do not put Women DV victims in with men DV victims... surely no one thought that?

I see our friend Disgusted of a certain northern town has put their tenpen'orth in... and been dismissed quite rightly!

The weird thing is that all the ones doing it seem to be female and appear very pleased with themselves. I don't know wtf they're thinking.

I think of Sheila Jeffreys' sex castes.

Handmaids who perceive themselves protected by their socioeconomic standing within the sex castes and never likely to be in need of such services
or
Handmaids who are hoping to gain status by alliance to rescue them from their place in the sex castes (but it won't work, because nothing is ever enough and their allyship and support is regarded as the entitlement of another group and not status-sharing).

Discussion of Jeffreys' book (other material no longer available so it's fortunate this is still up via the archive service):

<a class="break-all" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20140410170437/gendertrender.wordpress.com/2014/04/04/exclusive-preview-gender-hurts-by-sheila-jeffreys/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">web.archive.org/web/20140410170437/gendertrender.wordpress.com/2014/04/04/exclusive-preview-gender-hurts-by-sheila-jeffreys/

They want to smash women's services

There are a handful of activists on Twitter who've made a point of taking a photo and crowing every time they pull down a Vancouver Rape Relief posters or flier. The weird thing is that all the ones doing it seem to be female and appear very pleased with themselves. I don't know wtf they're thinking.