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Oooh missed this yesterday. Will read later with a cuppa. Wonderful news!

Shameless boast that I noticed this in COVID legislation in October and posted about it here:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4049248-Coronavirus-legislation-person-giving-birth?watched=1&msgid=105054160#105054160

So glad to see this change yesterday!

"There ain't nothing like a …. Baroness…"

btw, campaign would need to be to become a Baroness; they are the ones with the rights to sit in the Lords, the Dames just get sung about a l ot in Musical Theatre (not always a bad thing but not too useful in the debate…)

I was surprised that Cashman did not attend, or Featherstone, or Ruth Hunt. I was surprised that there was such a small opposition to these amendments in general. But we all know that #NoDebate means 'I can't debate because I have no logical arguments' so perhaps that's why they all stayed away.

Spot on. Imagine standing up in the HoL and saying women who give birth don't have a right to be called women or mothers, because that's somehow inclusive of the tiny minority of people who chose to give birth, despite not believing they're of the female sex. Won't wash with the majority and they know it, and the real reason is even harder to defend. Far better to manipulate the situation behind the scenes so changes are enshrined in legislation before anyone has a chance to object. Far better also to allow a lesbian peer to slander a woman who works tirelessly, at great personal cost, on behalf of women and girls, in the hope that all everyone hears is alt-right and bigotry, rather than any useful contribution to the debate.

I’ve caught up on most of the debate.

So good to hear the issues getting airing in the House of Lords - it’s clear that the Lords and Baronesses have woken up to the fact that women matter, that language matters, and that biology is real.

I just want to thank anyone from the HoL who is reading this thread and who stood up for women today. Let’s hope that the HoC will soon follow suit.

Have a good day, everyone. I'm feeling more positive.

And, although I'm a liberal leftie, thank you to Sen Paul Rand for his calm but hugely revealing questioning of Rachel Levine.

This is beyond left and right. This is revealing the truth.

Slowly going through this thread.
Not my parliament, not my country, but this is so heartening. I hope that Ireland and the rest of the world takes note.
I am from an almost militantly left-wing family far across the seas and it's weird to be siding with conservatives in my old age. But this is beyond left and right. It's about women.

And thank you thank you thank to J K Rowling to drawing attention to this issue to a wider audience.
*
Hopefully she''ll be made a Dame and then she too can sit in the House of Lords.*

Can we start a campaign?

You have to debate in order to figure out the nub of your argument - it would appear from some people today that they simply don't understand their own points.

John Stuart Mill:

He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them. But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion... Nor is it enough that he should hear the opinions of adversaries from his own teachers, presented as they state them, and accompanied by what they offer as refutations. He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them...he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

I just wanted to come on and add that YOU LOT DID THIS! All your noise, protest and determination is what brought this to such a brilliant head. I know we're not finished yet but my goodness it is such a privilege to be able to read these boards and soak up the wisdom of Mumsnet. Thanks to you all.

I watched almost all of the debate today ans my heart sang every time another peer stood and stated that women deserve protecting and that our language deserves protecting. It was a such a huge moment and while there is more to do I will old onto this and savour it.

I think one thing this whole thing is teaching me is that politics is not as simple as left and right. I understand some of the reasons we have a party system but really, it isn't fit for purpose. What other issues am I completely sold a lie on because one person in a party can exert pressure? Collaboration like we saw today is so so meaningful.

I won't link to the article because, you know, Penis News.

But halfway through the nonsense they get on to slandering JCJ and then come out with this classic:
"Despite her powerful speech Baroness Barker met with little support or agreement in the House of Lords"

You really struggled to put your usual spin on this one didn't you lads?

Thank you so, so much to all the wonderful members of the House of Lords who are supporting women!

Fabulous to read all the posts here and thank you for all the links to catch up on. Such a relief!

I’m on about page 24 of this thread and it’s been amazing reading the links and updates. @ofcoursesis your second post about your connection to Lord Winston gave me goosebumps. I’m not a mother but had a pregnancy and loss last year and that experience, combined with the collective wisdom of people on this board, has been life-changing for me. I am more proud than ever before to be a woman and proud to defend our rights. I don’t live in the UK any more but feel so much solidarity in this forum and am hugely grateful for the education I receive whilst lurking in the background.

Thank you to everyone adding wisdom and links to this thread and of course everyone in the HoL. So powerful ❤️

I often wonder about that, Lang (I wish she was still in this space)

#nodebate means #weNeverLearnedHowToDefendOurPosition. Which is not awfully helpful when trying to unpick complex issues with grown ups.

You have to debate in order to figure out the nub of your argument - it would appear from some people today that they simply don't understand their own points.

Bit embarrassing, really.

We've achieved a lot over the last few years. Here's a debate touching on related issues from the HoL in mid 2018:

parliamentlive.tv/event/index/b78cbb13-cf73-4e72-83d7-0ff565722898?in=14:54:47&out=15:51:47

In 2018 Lord Lucas was quite clumsy in his attempts to define gender, how it differs from sex and why sex is important, but he tried. Today, he confidently spoke up for women's rights and the importance of sex.

In 2018 very few women participated in the debate. It was mostly men wearing rainbow lanyards (including Cashman) and namedropping Stonewall and Mermaids. Baroness Barker was there, also Baroness Featherstone (Libdem surprise surprise!) Featherstone said some shockingly awful things about feminists and was not challenged.

In 2018 women's rights were not discussed beyond Lord Lucas's awkward introduction. The whole thing had an air of trans are the most oppressed so be kind and that Lord Lucas was a bit rude for bringing any of this up in the first place.

By contrast, today's debate was squarely focused on women's rights and how our rights are impacted by the gender agenda, loads of women spoke and the vast majority of speakers agreed with Lord Lucas's amendments.

I was surprised that Cashman did not attend, or Featherstone, or Ruth Hunt. I was surprised that there was such a small opposition to these amendments in general. But we all know that #NoDebate means 'I can't debate because I have no logical arguments' so perhaps that's why they all stayed away.

I am left but womens rights are so important I could not care less which side defends them as long as somebody does!

I have developed a massive crush on you Lord Hunt.

I'll be dignified about it, but, you know...

Wish more men were like you

Fwiw I like the headline. It's a crazy concept that pregnant women wouldn't be called mothers so it will encourage people to read the article.

It's a hilarious headline.

I hope Rosie Duffield sleeps well tonight. I have really felt for her. I suspect some of her colleagues will find it hard to look her in the eye after this week. And now it's in Hansard forever what happened. Wonderful.