Have things gone too far?

Fucking hilarious, isn't it? LGBTQ+ sites and lobby groups insist that lesbians should not have any say in whether their groups and services contain TQ+ people, but if you set up a group like, say LGB Alliance, to focus on the issues for LGB people, such a thing deserves to be punished because it doesn't include TQ+ and everything else.

Looks a lot like blatant fucking hypocrisy and a refusal to allow LGB people, and women in particular, the right to say no.

So incredibly transparent.

Virtually every single tweet on her timeline is her ranting on about trans women, I suggest this is the reason she has attracted hostility.

Oh you mean she's asking for it by talking too much?

Lesbian women have been part of the feminist movement since before I was born. They have set up women's shelters for women and children fleeing male violence, they have worked for abortion rights, they have worked for contraceptive access. Julie Bindel and her partner founded Justice for Women, an organisation for law-reform for women who retaliated to domestic abuse from a male partner.

They never washed their hands of the problems affecting women in heterosexual relationships. They stood with women. I think it's time the favour was returned.

And I don't think it is your place to intercede and to speak over lesbians in this damn thread and tell women that our sisters are doing fine in the "queer" community.

Are you really saying that trans people who join a community that openly advertises it is for LGBTQ+ womxn, trans and non-binary people are somehow guilty of sexual harassment. If I go to a trans inclusive queer women's event am I sexually harassing people simply by being there despite the fact the event is explicitly welcoming of people like me

No we are talking about transwomen deliberately posting on sites set up for same sex attracted females. So why do they do it?

We're not going to be blinded to misogyny and sexual harassment because you stick a "queer" label on it.

Are you really saying that trans people who join a community that openly advertises it is for LGBTQ+ womxn, trans and non-binary people are somehow guilty of sexual harassment. If I go to a trans inclusive queer women's event am I sexually harassing people simply by being there despite the fact the event is explicitly welcoming of people like me?

I Googled "giggle" had a look at the twitter page, and it took literally minutes to find a tweet from a well known TRA threatening to shoot women. Twitter have allowed the tweet to stand.

That person making the gun threats was replying to another blue tick concerned that the US is ''hurtling into a serious gender critical movement.'' (Which is funny, because we were told yesterday that gender critical people barely exist in the US, but today it's such a huge problem that it needs to be dealt with with guns.)

Also, Emily G writes for the Guardian and has referenced guns and ''terfs'' before.

But it's probably just bantz though, right?

don't know how straight people think they even have a right to an opinion on this. Why are you so determined to police queer spaces?

First of all you are making assumptions about my sexual orientation because I said that I have never used such sites.
Moreover, I only mentioned lesbian dating sites and in fact named none of the above Sites in your post .So why do transwomen post on these same sex only sites? Is it contempt for lesbians, merely a lack of respect or an inability to empathise with another marginalised group.

Nice reversal, there, jj, and attempt to switch the categories.

Women have kinship with women when we see other women being harassed for saying "no, I won't have sex with you" to men. When we see that No ignored, when we see them being told their No is invalid.

Straight and bisexual women have all had plenty of experience of that. Lesbians, being er, lesbian, always say No, and straight and bisexual feminists will ally with our fellow women. We're not going to be blinded to misogyny and sexual harassment because you stick a "queer" label on it.

Thank the lord for the people coming here to tell us there's no fucking problem. I'm so glad we get both sides of the issue here - the women saying 'this is a problem' and the other folk saying 'this isn't a problem, and anyway, your examples may well be lying'.

I mean, it's obviously infuriating that this sort of thing is permitted, and that women are so hamstrung in responding, creating a power balance that is fucking outrageous, but I at least take comfort that people can read these posts and see exactly who is who in the power balances.

I don't know how straight people think they even have a right to an opinion on this. Why are you so determined to police queer spaces?

In a discussion about men sending nooses and threats to lesbians being same-sex attracted.

I don't know how straight people think they even have a right to an opinion on this. Why are you so determined to police queer spaces?

even when activists are drawing pictures of nooses and sending them to her.

Do you honestly believe someone called osamafan3000 with just over a hundred tweets and 75 followers is actually a trans rights activist?

The internet is a shithole, online misogyny is a very real problem, that doesn't mean every single troll and dickhead you come across is a trans rights activist.

Have they believed Stonewall that biological sex really doesn’t matter?

Or maybe they are just happy to meet other tw lesbians like themselves?

CoffeeTeaChocolate

I Googled "giggle" had a look at the twitter page, and it took literally minutes to find a tweet from a well known TRA threatening to shoot women. Twitter have allowed the tweet to stand.

twitter.com/EmilyGorcenski/status/1364932786239533059

twitter.com/salltweets/status/1364852587489468417/photo/1

Still no answer to why transwomen are posting on these apps. Do they have no respect for same sexed attracted people?

Virtually every single tweet on her timeline is her ranting on about trans women, I suggest this is the reason she has attracted hostility

I’ve just checked Sall Grover’s timeline and she doesn’t seem to mention trans people at all - even when activists are drawing pictures of nooses and sending them to her.

You are confused jj, and again, making a rather unfair characterisation of what a woman is saying - Sall tweets about women’s rights.

Why do you think that a woman tweeting about women’s rights justifies people sending her loads of vicious and violent threats?

Sall initially allowed tw onto her app but was forced to remove them because they were setting up profiles with violent threats to women and harassing women members.

She let them in and they abused her kindness by being violent and abusive - not what the women were there for!

Well there you are then, what are you complaining about unless you think apps for queer women should be banned or something. There's both, what's your problem?

It's another one of those days!

Like when women looking at kiwi farms were in danger of terrorism accusations, criticising Stonewall is actionable, and alerting women to perverts is revenge porn.

Now same sex dating isn't commercial viable!! Haha.

There's no money in it, innit. 🤣

Then the need for a trans person to go to a toilet where they feel safe. Again needing to be safe is totally acceptable.

If a man says he feels safer in women's spaces, should he be allowed use them?

There's also an important gap between feeling safe and being safe, which is often manipulated these days.

So evidence-wise we have one fairly well known gender critical activist who thinks they were kicked off Hinge - which isn't a lesbian only site - because they said they were same sex attracted but they don't really know for sure and we've all just got to take her word for it.

It does seem curious that this only seems to happen to gender critical activists or their 'friends' who they surveyed, and there is never any actual evidence. None of the lesbians I know, or follow on social media, or who are outside of gender critical circles, seem to be having these problems.

If it is more profitable to set up apps which are trans/nonbinary inclusive then that is what people will do in a capitalist society,

Lesbian dating apps are very commercially viable. Sall Grover is inundated with applications and she's only been at it five minutes.

And she's had to spend most of that time telling male born individuals that her site doesn't apply to them.

She's even had to introduce facial recognition because so many of them won't take no for an answer! Thousands upon thousands of them.

Lesbians are same sex attracted.

Oh good, regularly scheduled 'nothing to see here' bullshit. What a refreshing change.

Oh and just in the last two days, the woman who set up giggle, firefighter Lucy Masoud, two threads on here full of testimony. Also loads of lesbian mumsnetters including a thread started by an initially very pro trans lesbian.

Umpteen grassroots organisations and articles too numerous to count.

Widespread.