Have things gone too far?

Don't bother bringing your evidence, my dears. It's already been mentioned and was countered with a suggestion Lucy Masoud was lying.

Remember, according to some, the evidence base is always n+1.

That doesn't mean every lesbian who might fancy the odd trans woman immediately ceases to be same sex attracted. That seems to me to be a ridiculous notion and seems to be a new way mostly straight people have come up with to police lesbian and gay sexualities.

It would allow lesbians in their profile to state ' biological women only' without being kicked off the app as 'punishment' for their 'transphobia'

But I haven't seen any evidence that people are being kicked off these sites for that. I've never used a lesbian dating site but certainly when I was on okcupid there were plenty of lesbians who might say no trans women thanks, don't have a problem with it's but not my thing and I wasn't in the least offended. I never heard of anyone getting banned for it, so perhaps if people have been it's something to do with the way they phrased things, or some other aspect of their behaviour on the site. If your profile has BIOLOGICAL FEMALES ONLY LESBIANS DON'T DO DICK TRANSWOMEN ARE MEN in big capital letters at the top followed by an epic rant about trans women being permitted to use the site it might attract attention from the mods for example, whereas saying 'not into trans women, sorry' might not.

If the amount of lesbians who do not wish to date trans is larger than the amount of people offended by lesbians not wishing to date trans, then it makes financial sense to permit lesbians to state that they do not wish to date trans.

So, either the company believes that the amount of people offended by lesbians not wishing to date trans is greater than the amount of lesbians not wishing to date trans

OR

They think this smaller group would kick up such an almighty shit storm if they allowed lesbians to say they did not wish to date trans and do not want to have to deal with that

OR

The owners of the dating site themselves believe that lesbians should not be able to say they only want to date other lesbians.

These are the only options. Your list of groups made no sense if the vast majority of those groups don't give a shit who lesbians include and exclude, as you insist is the case.

So how can you say some lesbians will date transwomen as transwomen are not the same sex as lesbians?

So they are not expecting to date lesbians GC or not because they accept that lesbians will not be attracted to them as they do share the same sex ?

No of course they aren't joining 'these sites' - which you refuse to identify and which let's face it don't actually exist - because they want to date someone who is not attracted to them. That's not a very good basis for a relationship.

There are lesbians who would consider dating trans women.

So you don't believe that lesbians are same sex attracted?

@jj1968

But its not simply 'the market' is it? Its promoting an ideology. If it was the market it would allow lesbians to choose biological females only. (just like I as a straight woman can choose only to get contacts from men). It would allow lesbians in their profile to state ' biological women only' without being kicked off the app as 'punishment' for their 'transphobia'

You are trying to present this as people just being allowed to choose in a free market, but there is an ideology in these companies which is clearly telling same sex attracted women that their orientation is 'wrong' and 'phobic' and they are not allowed to publicly state it.

I cannot see how any sane person can regard that as anything other than deeply discriminatory, sexist, homophobic and just plain wrong.

Lesbians aren't sexually attracted to men.

As any number of people in the House of Lords have today said, 'words have meanings'.

Like I've already said, the current legislation already represents a common ground. It doesn't satisfy everyone but compromise rarely does. It's not GC feminists who have lobbied to change it.

I just don't know how both can be supported? But anyway my op was about feeling like there is no room for common ground

Well there should have been a sensible debate about all this. The gender critical feminists have wanted to have this debate. They are the ones calmly gathering the evidence and being willing to sit down and discuss all this. Its the gender ideologists who have cried ' no debate' and tried to shame and sack and stigmatise and encourage collective hatred of the feminists who said, as you have said, there is a conflict of rights here, lets discuss how to handle this.

I am tired of the idea that both sides have been unreasonable. There is only one side that has said ' no debate' , and tried to punish and silence the other side, only one side has been subject to physical attacks and bomb threats, death and rape threats. And that has come entirely from gender ideologists. The death threats may be from more extreme elements, but even 'respectable organisations' have thrown accusations of 'haters' and 'no debate' (which is a shaming tactic) and other social shaming and punishing tactics, removing awards, removing positions, getting people sacked.

Its not the feminists who have behaved badly here, so lets no pretend that it is.

There are lesbians who would never consider dating a trans women and would refuse to use any site which was trans inclusive.

There are lesbians who would never consider dating a trans women but who simply swipe on trans women and aren't annoyed enough about it to not use the site.

There are lesbians who would consider dating trans women.

There are non-binary people who would consider dating trans women.

There are bisexual women who might use lesbian dating sites but would consider dating trans women.

There are trans women.

There are trans men.

There are lesbians who might consider dating trans men.

There are non binary people.

There are lesbians who might consider dating non binary people.

There are people who identify as queer who might have all different kinds of ways of identifying their gender and sexuality.

These last ten groups comprise far more people than the first. What they all have in common is none of them want to date male identified men. This is why a business which seeks to make a profit might tailor their services towards LGBTQ+ womxn, trans or non-binary people. No conspiracy, no secret plots, just the free market doing what the free market does and businesses maximising their customer reach.

" do not share the same sex"

**Which sites?

If you mean Her I imagine they are looking for partners who are LGBTQ+ womxn, trans or non-binary people who are open to dating trans women. I very much doubt they are hoping to date gender critical lesbians.**

So they are not expecting to date lesbians GC or not because they accept that lesbians will not be attracted to them as they do share the same sex ?

In case anyone doesn't know, the house of lords have just voted overwhelmingly in favour of replacing the word person with the word mother, in a maternity bill.

They have also said that certain rights of women do actually trump those of trans people, and intimidatory tactics are not acceptable.

That language needs to be clear in order that women have their specific rights respected. And that 'this is just the beginning'.

They talk about the wrong advice of the EHRC and I suspect will be making it crystal clear that homosexuality is based on sex.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4176497-History-in-the-making-Watch-Parliament-Live-at-2-30pm?watched=1&msgid=105036123#105036123

How is it that only a tiny amount of people think single sex dating is transphobic, yet dating apps feel losing these customers would cost them a lot of money? Are there more than a tiny amount of them, or do that tiny amount have a disproportionate amount of influence? I cannot think of any other valid explanations.

If you mean Her I imagine they are looking for partners who are LGBTQ+ womxn, trans or non-binary people who are open to dating trans women. I very much doubt they are hoping to date gender critical lesbians.

If she STFU she wouldn't hear a peep of that hostility, would she? That she was receiving it for starting a website that was solely for females is nicely glossed over too.

Well, I for one am reassured. Why isn't everyone else?

FFS. When your teenager shows you videos (not just one) of young lesbians issuing heartfelt apologies to the social-mediaverse that they are sorry for saying they don't do dicks, you know that there are issues. And that young lesbians are being shaped by these experiences.

But.... no. Because someone is here telling us that it is a fringe issue and that anyone persecuting lesbians is not representative. Maybe they are just straight men in disguise (I am not sure you really wanted to say this). And that it is not wide spread at all.

Oh. But wait.... we also have lesbians stating it IS an issue and it has been getting worse and not improving at all.

It really feels like there is a 'nothing to see here' thing happening. We are told to listen to other's experiences. We are also told that you need to listen to the right kind of person's experience, the 'real' story in a calm and soothing voice.

Confusing? of course it is!

So transwomen posting on these sites are not looking for lesbian women partners and accept that lesbians are same sex attracted females?

Nice deflection. Tell me do transwomen believe that lesbians are not same sex attracted?

No we are talking about transwomen deliberately posting on sites set up for same sex attracted females. So why do they do it?

Which sites are these?