Have things gone too far?

OP, you have someone who has set up on this thread, as they do on a lot of threads, to redefine lesbians. This person likes to claim that anyone disagreeing is a heterosexual interloper.

I'm a lesbian, telling you that being sexually oriented towards the same sex as a woman, or a man, does not include members of the opposite sex if they've had a few cosmetic surgical procedures.

I'd be interested to know if you think I'm the extremist for saying that lesbians are exclusively same sex attracted, or if the other person who insists that lesbianism includes some males under specific conditions and refuses to accept that any coercion is happening to women?

Sorry, I just want to hammer home ridiculousness of 'no-one can deny anyone's identity' stance, and the ' words mean whatever I say they do' stance.
So I had a friend who only wanted to date non-smokers, after a long battle to quit herself. She dated a guy. Liked him. On her third date, he started to smoke. ' But you said you were a non-smoker' she said, ' 'I am' he replied, ' I only smoke socially.' Was she cruel to dump him as a smoker? Was she cruel to deny him his identity?

There are men who regard themselves as monogamous as they only shag women who aren't their partner when they are drunk on night outs? If their partners find out, are they wrong to deny these men their monagomous identity by dumping them?

Words have meanings.

My apologies but still doesn't explain why transwomen would describe themselves as lesbians when seeking heterosexual relationships.

Because , and wait for it, some trans women consider themselves women.so they may feel it more appropriate to describe themselves as a trans lesbian (which most do), than as a straight man. This is because most straight women are not interested in dating trans women wheras some lesbians will consider it, as will other trans women who may also see themselves as lesbians as well as those who identify as queer, non binary, pan etc.

It's not a secret plot it's just pragmatism. I got messaged by lesbians on okcupid and I was very clear in my profile I was trans and bisexual, I also got messaged by other trans women and non binary people. I didn't get messages from straight women and I got bombarded with creepy messages from straight men, and so eventually I selected that my profile not be seen by straight people or men - which pretty much plunged me into lesbian search results by default. None of these sites are that great for trans people either and as people's identities become more complex they are just trying to keep up with what their user bases want.

OP, I think most people on this board have a huge sympathy for anyone who is gender dysphoric. Many here have come across this in real life.

But the transgender debate have been pushing against women’s boundaries for a long time.

I don’t think anyone here would tell anyone who to love, who to have sex with or how to dress. But most regulars are focused on women’s rights.

Homophobia has been an issue for a long time and it has been very hard for lesbians to be able to come out.

When they finally are ready to do that and feel that it is getting accepted, they are faced with all these gender discussions and the concept that “lesbians can be interested in women with lady dicks”.

Dating apps do not allow for the preference biological women only.

We see women being trolled online and hear of women being thrown of dating apps for stating biological women only in their profile.

And the women who stay silent are bombarded with profiles of people looking very much like biological males, complete with beards.

I think this seems very homophobic. This has nothing to do with empathy for individual people and everything to do with the erasure/invalidation of a lesbian identity.

OP I hope you are not suggesting that lesbian women should “give trans women a chance as a sex partner” because they may have had some issues?

As an example, I knew a gay man, who was in exclusively gay relationships, but was a bt of a swinger and would very occassionally have a sexual experience involving a woman. But he didn't see himself as bisexual, he identified as gay and lived 99.9% of his life that way and I don't really see what business it is of anyone's to deny him that

There are also men who claim to be straight but have sex with men but they arent' straight. They are bisexual. Sorry, I fundamentally disagree that people can define themselves as they wish and no-one can disagree with this. That may be your position, you may think Rachel Dolezol is black and that no-one can deny her that, but I disagree.

noun: homosexual; plural noun: homosexuals. A person who is sexually attracted to people of their own sex
I am glad you are such a fan of dictionary definitions. I take you agree that a woman is an adult human female?

Are you claiming that people who are bisexual are not sexually attracted to people of the same sex?

My apologies but still doesn't explain why transwomen would describe themselves as lesbians when seeking heterosexual relationships.

I don't think you have the right to dictate to others how they should identify their sexuality Anyone can think about their sexuality as they wish. What is objectionable is when they try to appropriate other people's experiences and the words that define them. Come up with a new language to define oneself if you wish. Don't appropriate other people's language.

You are not a character in an Alice in Wonderland book. You cannot demand words mean whatever you say they do.

a person who is sexually attracted to people of their own sex.

Doesn't need an explanation.
Words mean things.

I am same sex attracted. I am not a lesbian. I am also not a gay man.

Mm is this some kind of riddle?

a person who is sexually attracted to people of their own sex.

It doesn't say exclusively. It doesn't mean that if you've ever had sex with someone of the opposite sex and enjoyed it you are no longer homosexual. It doesn't mean that if you fancy a trans women, and see her as a women, you are no longer sexually attracted to people of your own sex. Lesbian and gay are identity, no matter how much you claim otherwise. It may be true that some lesbians and gays have never felt the slightest attraction to anyone of the opposite sex, for others it might be a slightly more complex picture. As an example, I knew a gay man, who was in exclusively gay relationships, but was a bt of a swinger and would very occassionally have a sexual experience involving a woman. But he didn't see himself as bisexual, he identified as gay and lived 99.9% of his life that way and I don't really see what business it is of anyone's to deny him that.

You, presumably a straight person, is

Again with the assumptions.

Who cares? I don't give a flying fuck what names idiots want to call me - I am not having sex with a man with a vagina! End of

Have we had an answer as to why transwomen will describe themselves as lesbian women seeking to meet lesbian women on dating sites. Why would they do this if they know lesbians are same sex attracted females and therefore will not be attracted to them, as they are the opposite sex? Is it wishful thinking , contempt for lesbians or just a total lack of respect for same sexed attracted women?

No, does it not just mean they are really bisexual? Also who is doing the policing?

You. You, are doing the policing. You, presumably a straight person, is telling a lesbian she can no longer consider herself same sex attracted if she fancied a trans woman once. I don't think you have the right to dictate to others how they should identify their sexuality, it is a deeply personal and often quite complex thing.

Remember, according to some, the evidence base is always n+1.

No the evidence base is evidence, not someone with an agenda saying I think this happened but can't really be sure.

Because gender and sexuality is clearly somewhat more complex than chromosones and some people, including some women, are happy to consider that trans women are women

No - same sex attraction is just that. Same sex attraction. You can't POMO your way out of that and still claim that lesbians are of course same sex attraction except when they are not, , but yes they are, except when they are not, but they are.

doesn't mean every lesbian who might fancy the odd trans woman immediately ceases to be same sex attracted. That seems to me to be a ridiculous notion and seems to be a new way mostly straight people have come up with to police lesbian and gay sexualities

It means they are bisexual, they may be primarily attracted to females, but not exclusively. Bisexuality doesn't have to be 50% men and 50% women.

We already have very useful words for the sexualities you are describing.

Some lesbians date men.
Some vegetarians eat meat.
Or do words mean things?

Same sex attracted means....

That doesn't mean every lesbian who might fancy the odd trans woman immediately ceases to be same sex attracted. That seems to me to be a ridiculous notion and seems to be a new way mostly straight people have come up with to police lesbian and gay sexualities.

No, does it not just mean they are really bisexual? Also who is doing the policing? Simply getting definitions of words correct. Same sex means someone is a member of the sex class and they are exclusively attracted to other members of that sex class. No?

@jj1968
Just because you have not come across this doesn't mean it does not exist. I have come across this happening. And yes, they were politley stating biological women only. It is happening.

But do transwomen really believe that same sex attracted women would be attracted to them despite being of the opposite sex ?