Single man looking for a surrogate - BBC

[quote Igiveyouanonion]@Clymene if you are aware of being selling babies then please alert the police!!![/quote]
If I have a baby and give it to you and you give me £15,000, isn't that selling a baby?

@Ereshkigalangcleg Yes of course, that's why I said "in the UK" in my post. I don't think there's any suggestion in the article that this man is going overseas but I might have not noticed that.

@Igiveyouanonion Well that's what I was wondering, I thought the law might have changed or something. I also wonder whether people feel that paying for IVF is "buying a baby" and therefore morally wrong and should be banned.

so mothers who adopt aren’t mothers?

I didn't say anything of the sort because it's a completely different situation, hope that helps.

It's quite possible to pay for surrogacy abroad, you realise.

@Igiveyouanonion What is the rationale, other than 'longing for a baby' to allow a medical procedure that is not life saving but may potentially result in the death and permanent disablement of another human being? Will the dependents of the surrogate be given lifelong support if this happens? What happens if the baby is born disabled - whether it is the fault of the surrogate or not - how is the fault going to be decided and what happens to the baby?

The problem is not if everything goes well - but if it doesn't. This is why financial planning for example has simulations - for the worst case scenario. I am not having a go at you, but what is your opinion on this?

@Ereshkigalangcleg so mothers who adopt aren’t mothers?

@BlackBrowedAlbatross it just sounds a lot nastier when you say these women are buying/stealing babies so it suits the narrative of posters here.

She is the mother. Women aren't incubators.

Actually the surrogate mother carries the baby who is made entirely from the genetic parents with the understanding they are not the mother of the baby. That baby would not exist without the embryo created by its parents.

@Clymene This is what I was asking above - how is it buying / selling, I thought you weren't allowed to charge for surrogacy in the UK? (But can have expenses reimbursed.)

@Clymene if you are aware of being selling babies then please alert the police!!!

But if the mother suffered infertility and had a surrogate mother carry her much wanted and much loved baby then that baby being brought up with its actual parents is child cruelty.

The surrogate is the baby's "actual parent" women aren't incubators.

@Igiveyouanonion - do you believe you can buy and sell adults? Or older children? Why is it okay to buy and sell babies?

Queer theory. The decoupling of biology from gender. Anyone can be anything and get anything they want - it doesn't matter what biological sex you are.

YY.

Didn't engage in the criticisms made online about deliberately depriving a baby of a mother because 'they wouldn't say it to his face'.

I'd say it to his face.

@PotholeParadies according to this thread, taking a baby away from the woman who carried it - even if that is to be with its genetic parents who love it very much - is cruelty to children and will damage the child. Many of the posters here reached this conclusion after having their own families without any issues.

If this is true then any adoptive mother must not love her child properly and the child must be unhappy having been adopted as it’s not with the woman who carried it.

Apparently though with adoption it’s fine and the adopted mother is the mother and loves her child and her child can grow up in a happy stable home with two loving parents.

But if the mother suffered infertility and had a surrogate mother carry her much wanted and much loved baby then that baby being brought up with its actual parents is child cruelty.

Also according to this thread, anyone who has a child via surrogacy has no morals, would abandon their child if it didn’t turn out perfect and aren’t parents at all but ‘baby commissioners’. It’s all very black and white really.

I'm not sure now as several PPs have mentioned buying babies / hiring uteruses etc, but I thought you couldn't be paid for surrogacy in the UK, except having expenses reimbursed?

(Not sure I agree with the argument about buying babies as to me as it seems akin to paying for infertility treatment, which I feel people should be allowed to do.)

You're going to have to break your thought process down for me there.

I don't see how you got there at all.

@TriflePudding so you don’t think adoptive mothers ‘love their offspring above all else’ as they didn’t carry them?

Many of the posters here have stated outright ‘once they had their children’ they realised they were against surrogacy. Again, very convenient

It’s called biology, human mothers are primed to love their offspring above all else, as babies are primed to love their mother above all else.

How is 'the baby commissioner' - which I used in the specific context of those who back out and don't take up the responsibilities of parenthood - 'nasty' but 'the surrogate' is all fine and dandy? I thought it was an appropriate neutral descriptive term, actually rather restrained and polite in the circumstances I was referring to.

What term would you prefer for these particular people?

My first thought when reading the article earlier today was of adoption as a far better thing if a single man or woman wants to have a family but has not met someone they wish to be in a loving stable relationship with.

This discussion has only strengthened my opinion.

What is a baby commissioner? Your own derogatory term for a loving couple who want to have a child? Nice! Hope that makes you feel better giving them a nasty label.

It's quite normal to talk about 'commissioning parents'. They are indeed commissioning babies so why not be accurate? Surrogacy is wrong no matter how lovely the couple.