Posie Parker Zoom

If you can’t detect transphobia in a person who says “trans people should not be parents” then you are beyond reason, and have your hands over your ears.

Exactly

They can make up their own minds whether that’s a person they want to get behind
and agree

And neither is Zoom, so maybe this tired oH nOeS iTs nAzI gErMaNy schtick just needs to go in the bin

If you can’t detect transphobia in a person who says “trans people should not be parents” then you are beyond reason, and have your hands over your ears.

I posted on this thread because there are posters and lurkers who weren’t aware of Posie’s back story, and who deserve to hear about it.

It’s not all sunshine and roses, and she’s not the put-upon targeted golden goose of GC feminism this board makes her out to be.

They can make up their own minds whether that’s a person they want to get behind.

Um, last time I checked, Posie wasn't a head of state (or even a putative coup leader).

it’s not silencing “women”. It’s silencing one specific woman, who has been consistently transphobic for years now, from using one tech platform, for breaking their terms of use.

Transphobia really does seem to be in the eye of the beholder. I've followed Kelly Jay for years and haven't seen any evidence of transphobia. Just a brave women who refuses to be cowed by bullies. The relentlessly malicious people who purposely drive her to distraction, so that they can take her exasperated response out of context, then spin what she said in order to paint her as something she is not. It's a tactic we often see being used on social media, even sometimes on these boards, so we recognise it easily.

Some people seem to forget that the women of mumsnet are perfectly capable of going to the source, examining the evidence and drawing our own conclusions. And that whenever anyone does that the penny drops, as it always does, in accordance with the forces of gravity and reality.

Those trying to smear exemplary women do themselves no favours.

As far as I can tell, jj, you spend most of your social media time on MN's feminism board proffering ridiculous excuses, so forgive me if I can't take your position seriously.

duvet

“ In lockdown I have witnessed groups of men using Zoom for their Poker night etc. Vile jokes are made, horrible things are shared. They are not being kicked off.”

Unless your male friends are broadcasting their poker sessions as monetised public webinar, it’s not the same scenario.

“Posie saying they should be sterilised is hardly the most outrageous of hate speech.”

Every time I think this place has hit rock bottom it goes that little bit further.

Wake up to what you are condoning here.

Here is another screenshot from that thread.

I’m not sure how much more clearly Posie can say she doesn’t support the forced sterilisation of transmen.

The tweet is continually quoted/posted out of context of its original thread.

“ I'm really not keen on this tendency to trawl people's social media posts from years ago as some kind of "gotcha" “

You’d maybe best not hang out on FWR then BitOfFun. That’s the mainstay of most threads!

But more to the point, no trawling involved, and it was right here on mn.

No TRAs were involved.

She was posting to real actual mn parents, and was not provoked, goaded or otherwise somehow forced to say it, nor was she remotely apologetic, or of a mind to retract.

The fact that others have said worse is not a free pass to say bad shit about whole groups of people.

I mean, if that made it ok it would basically be a free for all for anyone to say whatever the hell they please without anyone judging them, because once upon a time at least, someone else said something worse.

What a ridiculous excuse to proffer!

Re my comment about fake account, it was a genuine question as I wasn't on FWR when Posie was. I signed up not long before the GRA consultation deadline.

So Posie saying they should be sterilised is hardly the most outrageous of hate speech

I can't get my head round how you think it is the same - Posie is not trans, right?
So how is a trans man wanting to be sterilised as part of them wanting their body to be male too the same as a woman who isn't trans saying trans men should be sterilised?!
It's not the same thing.

However we then have people like you stating that it is oh so hard for people to get a GRC . Comparisons can go both ways.

If someone attempted to claim the experience of getting a GRC was akin to those who lived through the holocaust or the cultural revolution I would tell them that was as ridiculous as it is offensive. I'm not criticising people for complaining, or wanting to change something, I'm criticising them for comparing being banned from zoom or not beig invited to speak somewhere to mass slaughter and living under a totalitarian murderous state.

So as in my point as was how is that relevant, not so as in agreeing with any TRA's before somebody misreads or twists.

TRAs have said FAR WORSE, both recently and historically.

So?
Of course there will be some who have, yes.
What has that got to do with anything though, are you saying that people can be as hateful as they like because well, at least it's not as bad as this person who said worse?!
It's not a competition

Pothole...

“ It'll never happen, but if it did, it wouldn't be that bad because other children have it worse”....

.... and schools have found lots of ways to make sure all children can access their legal entitlement to education, even in much worse and much longer term and extensive hardship

You were almost there, just missed the end bit off.

TRAs have said FAR WORSE, both recently and historically. I'm really not keen on this tendency to trawl people's social media posts from years ago as some kind of "gotcha" because you don't agree with their current position.

“ Is that a fake Posie account though? I know there have been several fake ones to allow screenshots like this?”

No, if you read the MN posts screenshot upthread.

I wonder what would ever be considered enough “proof” when the will to excuse, minimise or deny her actions, words and beliefs of so very very strong
Exactly, and you see it a lot on here, complete and utter denial.
Can't see because don't want to.
Even if it comes out of the mouths themselves, proof will never be enough.

JustAmotherOne

Finally, a semi-decent answer!

So, in short? It'll never happen, but if it did, it wouldn't be that bad, because other children have it worse?

“ Is that a fake Posie account though? I know there have been several fake ones to allow screenshots like this?”

I wonder what would ever be considered enough “proof” when the will to excuse, minimise or deny her actions, words and beliefs of so very very strong.

She said it, she meant it, and she went further and said trans people should not be allowed to be parents.

Some of us were here, in mn, and saw it all play out.

Off the hip/out of context tweet etc is not what happened here, however much FWR has bought into that myth.

TL;DR Global companies seem to have too much control over speech.

Zoom is a California company and no law compels them to keep Posie as a paying customer. However, if Posie visited a California public library, she could use their Zoom account AND she could speak at the public library and say TWA"N"W all she likes because of our First Amendment. Now, I know this is a silly example because Posie can't exactly fly to California every time she wants to use Zoom.

But, we've failed to keep up with providing public spaces online, allowing private companies to provide them instead. We need places where freedom of speech laws would allow Posie to talk about almost anything. Thought I acknowledge freedom of speech vs public safety is an ongoing friction. For example, speech that is instigating violence (which, frankly, Posie has skirted with her idiotic suggestion to send armed fathers into school bathrooms).

I don't like everything Posie says, but I defend her right to speak her mind and I am very worried we don't have the public spaces to allow for this. Zoom isn't the problem - our international laws on shared platforms are.