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Original poster

How to identify the similar-minded women at work?

61 replies

SybillTrelawney · 20/02/2021 02:37

I'm feeling suffocated by the dominance of gender ideology at work, and I want to find any female colleagues who feel similarly (assuming there are some), partly to feel less alone, and partly so that I can speak up about my concerns knowing that it's not just me. I've talked to some male colleagues who think it's ridiculous, but they tend to just stay out of it because it's not worth the hassle. Unfortunately the people who actually get involved in "employee activism" and anything relating to diversity initiatives seem to be almost exclusively very woke and very TWAW, and so theirs are the only voices that get heard, and they make it a very uncomfortable environment for anyone who doesn't subscribe to the orthodoxy.

My company is quite large (1000-ish?), so I'd like to believe there are others; though it's quite a male-dominated workplace, and the vast majority of women there are under the age of 35 (as am I), so that makes me less hopeful. Does anyone have any suggestions for how to find them?

OP posts:
bourbonne · 20/02/2021 16:22

@SybillTrelawney I would never join an IRL women's group or feminist group for that reason. If I saw one advertised, I'd assume it was an invitation to either be lectured on wokeness by a young zealot, or sit around doing a lot of fluffy handwringing that goes nowhere. This forum is actually a revelation and an inspiration to me. Also, it conveniently fits in around the rest of my life, as you say!

ArabellaScott · 20/02/2021 16:21

OP, that's a real shame, but I suppose one thing would be to join the group/s and maybe ask questions, raise points, try and keep the focus on women and women's rights?

The women's group refuses to even use the word "women" on its own.

Yes, this is when it's very clear that feminism has been co-opted and taken apart to mean 'peoplism', or 'nothing at all'.

ArabellaScott · 20/02/2021 16:19

I feel I am going to be on the wrong side of history

In most instances history doesn't have a 'wrong side'. These issues aren't always simple and reducible to 'right' and 'wrong'. There are complex wider issues to consider, shades of opinion and the subjects are evolving as we watch.

Outbutnotout, brave woman, well done. I'm so sorry you're facing a disciplinary. Is there anything one could do to help? Acas? Mediation? Press?

Original poster
SybillTrelawney · 20/02/2021 16:14

@Outbutnotoutout What exactly did you say/do?

OP posts:
Outbutnotoutout · 20/02/2021 16:11

I popped my head over the parapet

I am now facing a disciplinary at work for being transphobic 🙄 so that's another voice silenced 🤐😶

Original poster
SybillTrelawney · 20/02/2021 16:06

Thanks for all the responses and suggestions — knowing there are people who care on here makes me feel a little better.

I quite like the book/ribbon/scarf suggestions, though everything is virtual at the moment, and I don't really have many meetings with women. All of the discussion about these things occurs on internal messaging channels dedicated to diversity & inclusion (where any display of critical thinking is immediately shot down). Unfortunately most of the men who think it's all BS don't join or engage with those channels, so they're overrun by the woke who just reinforce each others' views.

@newyearnewname123 your assumption was correct — it is a tech company (and a scientific one at that). I've heard that it was far less thought-policed, and far more tolerant of reasoned discussion in the earlier days, but it seems that as it has grown and the distribution of roles has changed (far more ops roles than there used to be, comprising mostly woke women in their 20s/early 30s), no one really discusses things critically anymore, and so the opinions of the SJWs, i.e. "TWAW" and "be kind to everyone (but only if they're trans or non-binary)", dominate everything.

@ArabellaScott Tragically we have both a women's group, and a separate "feminist" group, yet the people who get involved are all young, and all TWAW. The women's group refuses to even use the word "women" on its own. It has to be "women and non-binary people". This is also the case on all company-wide comms about any women-related events. As @bourbonne predicted, they are magnets for the genderists. I suspect that the women who actually know what a woman is are mostly too busy to get involved, since their time is spent dealing with all the extra unpaid work and mental load that comes with being a woman.

OP posts:
Whatstheweatherlike · 20/02/2021 15:11

So, to summarise, the men should be tolerant of trans people, so you don't have to?

What a bizarre reaction. The poster described how she'd considered the needs of several employees in terms of gender reassignment and religion. Your response is to complain it's been left to the men to deal with. Interesting to see you have zero consideration for the Muslim and Hindu women in this situation.

Merename · 20/02/2021 14:45

What a great question, love the secret signal idea. I am an equalities rep and I tried discussing it with a couple of colleagues when I was just becoming aware of the issues and quite innocently wanted to debate it a bit as I didn’t really know what I thought. Male colleague was interested and open to discussion but a female went purple, started frothing and telling me TWAW very loudly and I started to realise what was going on. Female dominated charity an I feel I am going to be on the wrong side of history by not speaking up but I don’t know how. I have a new manager who is super cool and I can’t imagine she’d shoot me down even if she was not GC, so hoping to build the relationship and find a way to bring it up. Fucked up how scary that is though Sad

roarfeckingroarr · 20/02/2021 13:53

@ArabellaScott

So, to summarise, the men should be tolerant of trans people, so you don’t have to?

No. I am happy to welcome transmen and 'non binary' females into female spaces.

Males should be tolerant of transwomen in their spaces.

It's not about trans people, its about women having women-only spaces. Or females having single sex provision, if you want to couch it in the legal terms of the Equality Act.

100%. I'm absolutely supportive of all female bodied women using women's facilities, regardless of how they identify.
ArabellaScott · 20/02/2021 13:28

So, to summarise, the men should be tolerant of trans people, so you don’t have to?

No. I am happy to welcome transmen and 'non binary' females into female spaces.

Males should be tolerant of transwomen in their spaces.

It's not about trans people, its about women having women-only spaces. Or females having single sex provision, if you want to couch it in the legal terms of the Equality Act.

Darcinian · 20/02/2021 13:13

Suffragette pin?

Darcinian · 20/02/2021 13:13

So, to summarise, the men should be tolerant of trans people, so you don’t have to?

Damn! Outed! Going out of my way to encourage other people to accept transwomen clearly demonstrates my bigotry.

What planet are you on?

Said TW and I get along well in the virtual workplace. I am sure we will go out for team drinks together again when the pandemic is over. No hatred. Mutual acceptance. It's great you should try it.

Nilbog · 20/02/2021 13:12

I like the idea of suggesting a women’s group. You could tie it in to IWD which is coming up soon.

newyearnewname123 · 20/02/2021 12:58

So, to summarise, the men should be tolerant of trans people, so you don’t have to?

The men should be tolerant of gender-nonconforming men so that these men can use the men's facilities. So women aren't asked to share with men.

Back to networking with like-minded gc people, there will definitely be others within the 1000 or so, just probably keeping quiet, or haven't realised how much it affects women.

Socrates11 · 20/02/2021 12:22

'You can pee next to me' making male spaces safe and inclusive is an excellent approach 👍

thedancingbear · 20/02/2021 12:15

@Darcinian

I work in a male dominated kind of "rough" industry. They liked Zuby's videos. Can be shared as a joke on non-work whatsapp with one or two male colleague friends. Do no more. They will spread it amongst the men themselves. Same with anything short silly or clearly insane (like some of the sports pictures).

Then wait for them to raise the topic with women.

A transwoman joined a tech team I work with regularly. I asked the men individually and quietly to please reassure the TW that they'd get no trouble in the men's toilets or men's showers. Pointed out that we have several Muslim and Hindu women in the tech teams who would say nothing but would stop using facilities if TW were present. They got it easily. They happily chatted to the TW. They took pride in being the kind of men who can tolerate difference. No trouble. That was a year ago.

There are more non-woke-beards than little OJs. They judge the motivations of other men far more harshly than we do. They can get away with it too in a way that we just can't. They can be woken up.

It is shit to have to walk behind men but it does work.

So, to summarise, the men should be tolerant of trans people, so you don’t have to?
inthew00d · 20/02/2021 12:09

Have you tried a secret coded message in the paper?

aweegc · 20/02/2021 12:08

I think a JKRowling book is the best. It's easy to start up a conversation with someone over a book without outing yourself, to see how the land lies.

At the same time, you can't be accused of anything by having a Harry Potter book!

"Hi HR I want to make a complaint about Suzie in Development. She's making the workplace unsafe for trans people."
"Oh? What has she been doing?"
"Well she has been reading a children's book by a well known author."

In fact, this would be brilliant bait for the sort of person who would complain. They'd make themselves look like a total numpty!!

Igmum · 20/02/2021 12:05

I love the idea of secret signals to find fellow GC women. I'm an academic and younger colleagues tend to be woke AF but it's wonderful to talk to fellow oldies. We tend to just explode with GC talk when we find each other

winterinmadeira · 20/02/2021 11:47

I would mention reading or take in Invisible Women. I have managed to identify several like minded women in my workplace by reading it.

bourbonne · 20/02/2021 11:44

@ArabellaScott

How to find other feminists: Quite simple.

Suggest setting up a woman-only group, or a feminist group, see who goes for it. Say 'women's rights', use the word 'woman'.

Make no mention, at all, of males, when discussing women. Clearly and calmly focus on women.

Remember your focus is on women. You need use no qualifying words, no concessions to 'not all men', no waffle about identity or thoughts about men's feelings. Men are free to set up their own groups if they wish.

Feminists will show up. Anyone who tries to get you fired, sends death or rape threats, starts whanging on about inclusion of males - not them.

My worry would be that it becomes a magnet for the genderists. Even if no men turn up, I would bet money that you'd immediately get emails from the woke contingent asking whether it's for "all" women.
Darcinian · 20/02/2021 11:33

The little OJs of this world like to make out that men are them or gammons or Reese-Moggs. Totally untrue.

The vast majority of men are decent human beings who can genuinely want no discrimination as well as seeing the problem with gender ideology.

We necessarily spend so much mental energy on the illiberal wokey misogynists and the predators taking advantage that it is easy to lose sight of ordinary men who are mostly reasonable people trying to be decent human-beings who will readily become GC allies.

ArabellaScott · 20/02/2021 11:25

A transwoman joined a tech team I work with regularly. I asked the men individually and quietly to please reassure the TW that they'd get no trouble in the men's toilets or men's showers. Pointed out that we have several Muslim and Hindu women in the tech teams who would say nothing but would stop using facilities if TW were present. They got it easily. They happily chatted to the TW. They took pride in being the kind of men who can tolerate difference. No trouble. That was a year ago.

That's brilliant. I wish we could see more men setting up initiatives like this. 'You can pee next to me', was it? Something similar - men welcoming non gender-conforming males, showing support for men who may wish to present differently than other men, etc.

Darcinian · 20/02/2021 11:20

I work in a male dominated kind of "rough" industry. They liked Zuby's videos. Can be shared as a joke on non-work whatsapp with one or two male colleague friends. Do no more. They will spread it amongst the men themselves. Same with anything short silly or clearly insane (like some of the sports pictures).

Then wait for them to raise the topic with women.

A transwoman joined a tech team I work with regularly. I asked the men individually and quietly to please reassure the TW that they'd get no trouble in the men's toilets or men's showers. Pointed out that we have several Muslim and Hindu women in the tech teams who would say nothing but would stop using facilities if TW were present. They got it easily. They happily chatted to the TW. They took pride in being the kind of men who can tolerate difference. No trouble. That was a year ago.

There are more non-woke-beards than little OJs. They judge the motivations of other men far more harshly than we do. They can get away with it too in a way that we just can't. They can be woken up.

It is shit to have to walk behind men but it does work.