Anti-FGM campaigner Hibo Wardere comes under attack

Amazing ally. Thank you for sharing the link @Lit

It would be great if Hibo included trans men in her feminism, but this isn't a big deal to me personally

I am sure she is supportive of all women and girls who have been subject to FGM, however they now identify.

The huge explosion in young women transitioning is primarily due to the lack of positive cultural affirmation and positive role models for young gender non conforming girls and lesbians; or quite often non conformity due to autism. To be then caught up in a culture in which the ideology of transgenderism has become mainstream, and enabled.

Girls, by and large, are post pubertal transitioners, usually after they have first come out as lesbians. FGM mostly happens before this.

One of my friends is a feminist journalist who spent many months in Somalia investigating FGM, and her stories were horrifying. The social and economic pressure to comply was horrendous, which is why I started donating to this cause

That sounds interesting. Can you link up any of the articles that they wrote?

I'm not a "GC feminist". The label pyramid selling industry you work in is at war with everyone. Your product isn't selling particularly well.

Trying to get Hibo Wardere to cross sell your identity labels for you is trying to multi level marketise FGM. It's pretty grim.

@Helleofabore
I was told that Hibo mentioning trans men would "hamper her efforts." I don't think that's true. I wasn't discussing the rights or wrongs of it. I am not one of the people tweeting at Hibo. I'd rather she was allowed to get on with it.

I support campaigns against FGM. Like anyone, I get to pick which charities I support.

One of my friends is a feminist journalist who spent many months in Somalia investigating FGM, and her stories were horrifying. The social and economic pressure to comply was horrendous, which is why I started donating to this cause

I'll say again:

I think Hibo does good work.
I think transgender people and their allies should direct their attention elsewhere.
It would be great if Hibo included trans men in her feminism, but this isn't a big deal to me personally.

Reminds me of this, written by the woman who is being persecuted at Bristol university.

dgrnewsservice.org/civilization/patriarchy/gender/white-feminism-thing-gender-identity-ideology-epitomizes/

I'm suggesting that the number of trans men who suffer FGM in Somalia is about the same proportion in the population in the UK, not that trans men in the UK are likely to have FGM. In the absence of other data, it's a reasonable assumption

Children are taken abroad for FGM, from Britain and elsewhere.

It is girls who are subject to FGM, not transmen. FGM has got nothing to do with gender identities. You cannot identify out of it; although it wouldn't surprise me if some wouldn't be tempted to try.

You said that tweeting it would hamper support for her. I don't agree. It's not a "demand" - if someone reaches out to a marginalised group, they are more likely to get support from that group.

I believe I posted Hibo is a victim campaigning for women and children. She is directly in touch with these victims, she knows their stories. I would put more faith in Hibo to get the language of her message right than a person on the internet. Both here in the UK and in Somalia.

If this needs clarification, I am talking about getting her message to those who actually need to hear it.

You are the ONLY person on this entire thread who is talking about limiting your support to Hibo's efforts to fulfil conditions to suit your own agenda and inferring that others would do the same. In fact, you pointedly stated:

I don't think mentioning trans men, just once, in a tweet, will hamper her ability to fight. Quite the opposite - she'll get a bunch more allies.

Thereby stating that if she changed the language she uses in her messages to suit a 'marginalised group', 'just once', people who quite frankly should be supporting an even MORE marginalised group than themselves rather than playing oppression olympics (if what you state is, in fact, true) would come on board as 'allies'.

So, they would then be conditional supporters who would more than likely demand other concessions to retain their support.

Either way, you are not painting a very positive picture. Rather, you are showing the light directly on the demands of a group of activists and how they seek to manipulate others.

You are wrong. They center men, but acknowledge that trans women also suffer from prostate cancer

And by doing so acknowledge that however someone identifies it does not change their sex.

The same people scolding Hibo for not speaking the language of American queer theory this week will be scolding us for being “white feminists” next week. And so it goes. As long as we all remember that no matter what it is, we’re doing it wrong.

I can only assume you can't possibly have any idea how badly you're coming across right now @DadJoke. I hope the dad in your name really is a joke\

If it isn't a joke, one can only assume that this is because they realise the profundity that supporting trans identities implies; and with the knowledge that quite often there can be no going back due to the effects of hormones, surgery and so on. It must be difficult to know, as an adult/parent, you have enabled this.

Abigail Shrier suggests it is the parents and the professionals who will be last to desist - for this reason.

It's bizzare how you demand that trans men are women, but then want to exclude them from services related to their biological needs

Transmen are not excluded from services which relate to their female biological needs.

Once again, why does any group of people feel they need a 'reach out' before they will support a campaign against the genital mutilation of little girls?

Trans men also have vaginas. As you would say - that's biology. So it's excluding a bunch of people you would refer to as women

Can you even hear yourself?

People are fretting because they've been 'excluded' from a campaign against female genital mutilation. Female genital mutilation

First world problems of the highest order. How can anyone even survive if their whole sense of well being is that fragile?

People are not that simple. You can support someone's campaign while disagreeing with their views on other matters. I support charities which deal with FGM, and there are a number. I'll make my decisions based on a wide range of criteria.

Actually. This is about FGM. It actually IS that simple.

Just like underage marriage.

If you are making your decisions based on your beliefs around the language used to describe victims past and present of FGM rather than on their effectiveness in preventing these practices, via the means that are not only ethical but effective, that is for you to reconcile.

And so Hibo now will not use transmen as an additive in her messages about FGM, AND has pointed out how offensive chest feeding is when it is substituted for breastfeeding.

Her list of alleged phobia is growing it seems.

I am sure that Hibo also pointed out that people living in this country who have English as a second or even third language, would find chestfeeding, not only confusing but would feel it did not apply to them. I am sure that as a very sleep deprived person with English as my only language, I would skim over any communication that was titled for chestfeeding (ie. not breastfeeding and chestfeeding) as not being at all relevant for me.

So, dadjoke have you ever had trouble breast feeding? Can you empathise with that at all? Do you know how difficult it is for some people, and incredibly painful?

I can assure you, the priority at that point is for relevant information communicated in very clear language.

You said that tweeting it would hamper support for her. I don't agree.

Ahem. That was me.

I didn't mean it would hamper support. I meant it would hamper her activism.

We've had a lot of discussion about this through out the thread (have you read it?).

TL;DR language that literate English native-speakers from the West (with generally 11 years compulsory school and voluntary education beyond that) find easy to comprehend is not necessarily comprehensible to someone from a very different culture who is speaking English as a 2nd/3rd language.

You genuinely don’t have the first idea how you come across, do you, dadjoke?

Anti-FGM campaigner Hibo Wardere comes under attack

and it continues here unabated.

Salami slicing over language while young girls are mutilated. I thought I’d seen it all and I couldn’t be shocked any more but I was wrong.

Would the prefix trans not be a reminder?
Unfortunately biology is a reality.

It's all about the face you aren't centering the penis not that they actually care about genital mutilation of men.

@Helleofabore

Do you think that Hibo would adjust her message if it was at all relevant?

Based on a snarky tweet she made about "chestfeeding" I'd guess not.

Oh. And even just gently stating 'if she did it just once, she would get a bunch of allies', doesn't remove the fact that this would, in fact, be a 'demand'. Because that 'bunch of allies' would not give their support without her doing this. Rather empty support one would say.

You said that tweeting it would hamper support for her. I don't agree. It's not a "demand" - if someone reaches out to a marginalised group, they are more likely to get support from that group.

You either support Hibo or you don't. Making your support conditional to her making a minor language change is not support in any true sense.

People are not that simple. You can support someone's campaign while disagreeing with their views on other matters. I support charities which deal with FGM, and there are a number. I'll make my decisions based on a wide range of criteria.