Anti-FGM campaigner Hibo Wardere comes under attack

The sad thing for me is that GC feminists absolute obsession with transgender issues detracts from the vast majority of issues where feminists and their allies agree - reproductive rights, harrasment, abuse, consent, rape convictions and inequality in the workplace.

Yet more guilt shaming? Ludicrous tropes about sinister plots?

Are you suggesting that we have all decided all those things should be ignored? You have absolutely no idea what people do offline or even why they congregate to chat here.

You have even gone so far as to post a leaflet about men in Kenya in support of your whataboutery. Unbelievable.

The sad thing for me is that GC feminists absolute obsession with transgender issues detracts from the vast majority of issues where feminists and their allies agree - reproductive rights, harrasment, abuse, consent, rape convictions and inequality in the workplace

What is sad for many of us is that you have yet to realise fully the reasons why this issue is so central; so basic to all of the other issues you speak of.

You have come to a board in which you knew you would find a focus on this issue. I'm not sure why you are so surprised? But women here are involved in all sorts of other issues too; and we come from a broad political spectrum - though most are probably what would be considered to the left of politics - certainly in British terms.

"I often wonder whether the religiosity of the U.S makes it more susceptible too, on this account."

Yes. It does. If you didn't grow up in the US (as I did), and especially if you didn't grow up outside of the pockets of liberalism in the US, it's hard to understand how much a part of ordinary communities this is, and how much homophobia there is (many US Christians are very preoccupied with homosexuality as a sin, expressly forbidden in the Bible; ones like my cousin who is a queer theology minister are much, much rather).

Cultural tone-deafness is a widespread problem.

When I hear about FGM, my first reaction is definitely "but what about trans women?????".

a whole new generation

I take the very lazy approach of throwing money at people who are actually prepared do something about it. I do know that wherever women are educated and empowered, it helps the local community more than anything else

Dare I suggest this sounds very much like gesture politics; which is really not politics at all. Politics is in the everyday realties and lives of people. Politics is what you do yourself; what choices you make....

So, for example, if you are an anti-slavery campaigner, you don't go around wearing a Nike Sweatshirt or trainers.......and if you are an anti-capitalist -progressive, you don't buy all your stuff on Amazon, or pop into McDonald's on the way home from your protest.

What amazes me is the cognitive dissonance of 'feminists' talking about empowering and enabling women and girls, on one hand; but then trying to eradicate the language around the realities of sex on the other.

It occurs to me that a while new generation of young women has only just started to wake up to what has been always there.......that women and and girls are oppressed on account of their femaleness; their body; their sex. Hence we now see women getting upset, as if for the first time, about the murder of a young woman by a police officer; or that girls are sexually targeted and abused in schools.....

I entirely understand I'm not personally affected by these issues, while my (almost entirely) intersectional feminist friends and women in general are. I used to be a bit transphobic until I met transgender people and listened to my feminist friends

So, you are quite young then, and not a parent?

I know intersectional feminism and identity politics is a huge thing in the U.S. But it is not so much so here in Britain. U.S culture and its issues are really quite different and specific to that country.

People in Britain are not so ideological in that way, and are far more pragmatic.

It seems a little disturbing to me that there is a hint of exporting and promoting ideas around transgenderism to countries such as Somalia.

Both FGM & transgender surgeries surgically damage the body and most often its natural functions and rhythms too. Girls subject to FGM grow up to be women who suffer on account of what was done to them as children. They often suffer life long pain and incontinence; repeated infections; and difficulties with natural bodily functions and processes such as menstruation and childbirth; and their sexuality and sex life is often severely affected too.

I entirely understand I'm not personally affected by these issues, while my (almost entirely) intersectional feminist friends and women in general are. I used to be a bit transphobic until I met transgender people and listened to my feminist friends.

I take the very lazy approach of throwing money at people who are actually prepared do something about it. I do know that wherever women are educated and empowered, it helps the local community more than anything else.

The sad thing for me is that GC feminists absolute obsession with transgender issues detracts from the vast majority of issues where feminists and their allies agree - reproductive rights, harrasment, abuse, consent, rape convictions and inequality in the workplace. I know you don't agree, that you think transgender rights are a sinister plot to insert men into single sex spaces, and that the "transgender lobby" is all powerful, rather than a small, marginalised group. I'm not going to discuss these issues on this thread.

I also think that both sex and gender identity are real, and that sex in humans is primarily dimorphic.

Even if women in somalia were able to opt out of a cultural expectations placed on females and adopt a role more akin to that of men, I doubt that such a role would fit that of the western gender ideologues idea of a 'transman' so to use the phrase 'transmen' is western imperialism. Don't you think african countries have suffered enough from that

Another plug for the book Crazy Like Us: The Globalisation of the Western mind.

Looks at how western maladies and conditions are exported around the world, along with a ready made pharmacological and professional services solution.

As you suggest - cultural imperialism.

If you think acknowledging the existence of transgender people in Somalia undermines my point, then you have it entirely back to front

Countries and communities in which sex roles are rigidly enforced, and in which homosexuality is a prohibited sin, are likely to be particularly susceptible to ideas around transgenderism - for obvious reasons.

I often wonder whether the religiosity of the U.S makes it more susceptible too, on this account.

If you mean my views don't "play well" with GC feminists, I am well aware. I also understand that this is your echo chamber, not mine, and I'm grateful I'm allowed to freely express my views

This particular 'echo chamber' is simply a rather more concentrated version of what exists in the real world. The world in which sex exists and in which sex matters. The world in which concepts of transgenderism are a novelty, or unheard of. The world in which young girls are subject to FGM.

You are indeed very fortunate to be able to express your views here, but that is accepted by and large, even though your points will continue to be challenged. It does not take much probing to reveal what lies beneath the protestations.

Your focus seems mainly to be mainly on children and young people; perhaps because you are the parent of such a child. And as a parent, we get the instincts to protect. That is why the feeling runs so strong on this issue.....because as with FGM, the idea that a child's body should be suppressed and surgically wounded in order for that child to conform to societal expectation is an anathema.

Wardere is a campaigner based in the UK, raising awareness in the west about the issue, campaigning against it in communities here. She does excellent work. My money goes to charities which work for changes in the law and work on the ground in Africa. It's not either/or.

I am perfectly well aware of that, and my concern was raised by a friend who investigated the issue a few years ago

Dadjoke....I'm not sure how long you've been involved with women's issues, or with feminism ( however you define it), but it really cannot have been that long if it is only in the last few years that you have been alerted to the realities of FGM.

You must be aware that most people who post here have been aware of and intimately involved with such issues for many years, in many cases decades. This is not a trendy issue, like 'period poverty', which has been taken up by those with an interest in furthering the cause of transgenderism.

The reason that people are so intimate and well acquainted with such issues is because they are women, are female, and so such issues are very close to home.

Just a reminder of the actual words that Dadjoke used on this thread about Hibo:

She's clearly slightly transphobic, yes. She has never said "it's because I don't want to dilute my message that I don't want to include trans men." When she talks about women, she's explicitly referring to biology, as do most posters here - it's trans exclusionary, the very definition of transphobic

Women are telling you to leave her and all the women fighting FGM alone. There are some battles that are not yours to appropriate and this is one of them.

Even if women in somalia were able to opt out of a cultural expectations placed on females and adopt a role more akin to that of men, I doubt that such a role would fit that of the western gender ideologues idea of a 'transman' so to use the phrase 'transmen' is western imperialism. Don't you think african countries have suffered enough from that?

I am not dehumanising women by saying trans men have vaginas

That is because transmen are biologically female. Sex matters in all sorts of ways, and for all sorts of reasons.

If your "headsup "is simply that you think TWAM, that gender identity isn't real and that you think transgender people "already have rights" then I already know that's your view.

If you have any more to add, then I'm all ears, on this thread or by PM as you wish.

Her particular version of FGM work

What other versions are there?

I have not done or said anything to Hibo Wardere, nor made any comment whatsoever about her other than on this thread in the context of "attacks" on her by transgender individuals. I am not "policing" her words. I don't have to "leave her alone" because I have not interacted with her in any way.

I have, in fact, suggested it would be a good idea for transgender people who have tweeted at her to leave her alone. Her comments on chestfeeding suggest that she is not entirely focused on FGM.

If you think acknowledging the existence of transgender people in Somalia undermines my point, then you have it entirely back to front.

Collecting data on trans men in particular in that region is very hard, but there is some information here.

reliefweb.int/sites/reliefweb.int/files/resources/SVMB-Kenya-Report-10-2019-FINAL.pdf

I just can't believe some of the posts on here.

No, me neither. Utterly revolting.

If you're someone looking for professional safeguarding training, this morning (31/01/21) is your last chance to get tickets to the session being delivered today via Zoom. Speakers include Hibo.

www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/fgm-awareness-training-with-hibo-wardere-and-gina-sosa-tickets-144257765861

There is another argument for including 'transboys' though even then it is not a strong link; it has a different cause so should be dealt with separately. That is a repressive sexist ideology is sweeping up young girls and removing sexual function initially through pharmaceutical means. Perhaps that is why Dadjoke is keen to include these vulnerable girls?

DadJoke I believe you mentioned Somalia.

'Lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender (LGBT) persons in Somalia face legal challenges not experienced by non-LGBT residents. Being LGBT is highly illegal in Somalia;[2] same-sex sexual activity is punishable by up to death in areas controlled by Al-Shabab as well as in Jubaland.[3] LGBT persons are regularly prosecuted by the government[citation needed] and additionally face stigmatization among the broader population.'

Trans people are not mentioned but I can't imagine it's particularly trans friendly either.

If you're concerned about trans people in Somalia that's where you need to put your energies.

Not in policing the words of an fgm activist.

How many under 5s in Somalia who undergo this procedure even know about trans IDs?

IF you genuinely care about this then leave this fgm activist alone and focus your efforts on the major issues for LGBT + people.

For fucks sake.