Anti-FGM campaigner Hibo Wardere comes under attack

This is a perfect illustration of how nothing which goes against the ideology can be allowed to pass. Hibo's activism makes an uncomfortable point which undermines what transactivists are pushing and advocating for, ie that women are not a sex class and do not need words and political activism which pertain to that sex class, so it must not be allowed to pass.

And although DadJoke keeps talking about trans men, it's worth noting that on the Twitter post, the vast vast majority of criticism is to do with her 'excluding' TW.

Not interested is not the same as transphobic.

This is a public message board.

Of course posting on here that she is using the wrong language is policing her language. Did you think this was a private conversation.

@persistentwoman she is clearly slightly transphobic, so why would I retract this remark?

And yet you’re here, lecturing feminists on how a woman conducts her work preventing the mutilation of the genitals of girls, because...?

Because you don’t think it’s quite right that women can go about our business without saying the right words of appeasement towards an ideology we don’t agree with.

It’s heretical.

I have also not found any reports of one single trans man who has been subjected to FGM. All this seems to be in aid of something that hasn’t actually ever happened.

" She's clearly slightly transphobic, yes...... it's trans exclusionary the very definition of transphobic "

Would you like to retract these comments criticising her for being transphobic?

So that's a no from DadJoke on the idea that if he really wants to help trans (LGBT+) people in general in Somalia then the fact they can get put to death for it seems pretty serious and supporting those trying to help would be really positive.

Also to claim that he's not policing her language even though he's said variously IIRC that she should refer to these children as 'people with vaginas' and also say something around TMAM or whatever and this is so important to him he'll give her £500.

Can you even hear yourself.

Leave her alone- and fyi criticising her on a public forum is not 'leaving her alone- and give your cash to a charity working for the LGBT+ people in these countries/ or support a grass roots local one.

I find it really, um, interesting that complaining that an FGM campaigner is using the wrong words gets loads of posts from DadJoke but the fact that gay men and lesbians are literally killed in some of the countries that practice FGM just doesn't seem to provoke much interest.

But you think you have some valuable advice about how she should carry out her work.

I am British, based in the UK I am a parent and I’m
middle aged. I repeat:

I don’t think transgender people should target Hibo Wardere.
I have not interacted with her in any way other than buying her book.
I think she does good work.
I donate to charities which educate and advocate for changes in the law in African countries affected by FGM.
I think that mocking chestfeeding is not connected to FGM activism.

"We are exposed to U.S culture here all of the time; and increasingly so......though most Americans have very little awareness at all of Britain and British contexts."

Oh I agree--I just meant that those outside the US may not realise how much currents of thought in the US (including the trans debate) may be influenced by US puritanism/religious feeling/Biblical fear of homosexuality. Trying to transplant the US ideas wholesale into the UK or other places, without understanding the context, leads to trouble.

I also meant that perhaps DadJoke should stop telling a Somali-born campaigner how to campaign about an issue affecting Somali (and similar) girls because it's the epitome of cultural tone-deafness.

She should have taken a leaf out of Jameela Jamil's book and just tweeted "Shut mouth. Open purse" back.

A woman who suffered FGM as a young child and campaigns against it got the snark off someone and was told she was slightly transphobic

What sort of privilege is that

For the purposes of clarity, this thread has made me feel like I was watching a rich, well-dressed man boast about choosing not to give food to a starving man in the street, because the begging notice had a spelling mistake in it.

Perfect analogy.

Also, am I missing something? Did she say anything other than she's not interested?

Dadjoke also judges her for making a "snarky" comment about "chestfeeding"

Here's the headsup you were after DadJoke, most people don't believe in gender identity ideology and they don't think people have actually changed sex, or were born in the wrong body. The U.K. is mostly a liberal country where people are happy to live and let live within reasons. So when polling is carried out people say that they think a trans woman is a woman etc. However when more questions are asked it's clear they do not actually believe that, especially when they perceive the ramifications.

So various polling shows that the U.K. public is happy to accept an MTF person who identifies as a woman as a "woman", but they do not support legal sex self ID, males in female sports or pre op males in women's toilets and changing rooms.

For the purposes of clarity, this thread has made me feel like I was watching a rich, well-dressed man boast about choosing not to give food to a starving man in the street, because the begging notice had a spelling mistake in it.

DadJoke

Ereshkigalangcleg
Do you actually think this plays well outside your echo chambers, Dadjoke? I'll give you a headsup, if you like.
If you mean my views don't "play well" with GC feminists, I am well aware. I also understand that this is your echo chamber, not mine, and I'm grateful I'm allowed to freely express my views.

If your "headsup "is simply that you think TWAM, that gender identity isn't real and that you think transgender people "already have rights" then I already know that's your view.

If you have any more to add, then I'm all ears, on this thread or by PM as you wish.

-

It's not GC feminists. It's everyone.

Do you seriously imagine that saying things like an FGM survivor and campaigner is transphobic for not promoting an ideology which claims sex isn't biological, only sounds batshit to a minority of people?

That she's not only demonstrating transphobia, but that her campaign would do much better if she did as you ask, as she'd get more allies and you'd give her £500. Promoting an ideology which says sex isn't biological, in a campaign about female genital mutilation?

You think that disagreeing with such a point of view is confined to a small minority?

if it is only in the last few years that you have been alerted to the realities of FGM.

I've been aware of the issue and the women campaigning against it since I was a teenager in the 90s.

The sad thing for me is that GC feminists absolute obsession with transgender issues detracts

Bye, not interested, to quote Hibo.

If you mean my views don't "play well" with GC feminists, I am well aware.

No that wasn't what I meant. I meant the wider world. Most normal well adjusted people in the U.K. wouldn't think bullying campaigners against FGM to change how they speak about things which affect only women and girls, because of your personal psychological issues around your gender identity is at all reasonable. Hope that helps.

I also think that both sex and gender identity are real, and that sex in humans is primarily dimorphic

Sex is a measurable reality the world over. Gender identity is not. It only exists if you believe it does, or if you identify with it. Sex is still there, however you internally identify.

What you seem to mean by gender identity is the expression of characteristics associated with social and cultural expectations around biological sex.

Cultural tone-deafness is a widespread problem

We are exposed to U.S culture here all of the time; and increasingly so......though most Americans have very little awareness at all of Britain and British contexts.

You are complaining that a campaign against female genital mutilation does not address the feelings of women who wish they were men, while at the same accusing us of 'absolute obsession with transgender issues'?

Righto.