Anti-FGM campaigner Hibo Wardere comes under attack

Why are you telling Hibo what to do what to write and what to think ?

Because he thinks this is some sort of totalitarian regime where anyone not displaying the correct sign is suspect.

It's bizzare how you demand that trans men are women, but then want to exclude them from services related to their biological needs.

We're talking about little girls being tortured and you want Hibo to change her language so she is less able to communicate with the women and girls who are victims of this torture so she doesn't offend a tiny minority of women who find mention of the fact they're women unpalatable.

I say once again, I am not demanding anything at all. I am not suggesting that she changes her language centering women. Sure, I'd like to see a single tweet acknowledging that she includes intersex people and trans men, but that's not a demand.

Prostate Cancer UK usually talks about men suffering from prostate cancer (because it's almost always men) but reminds people once in a while that trans women have prostates, too.

Dadjoke

Why are you telling Hibo what to do what to write and what to think ?

Is there even a single transman who has suffered FGM?

I agree with pp that those trying to get Hibo to adopt their recent redefinitions of "women" and "girls" just look like racist dicks.

And here is a Leeds-based FGM support clinic launched in Leeds. They've managed to centre women with just a nod towards trans men. It's really not that hard.

Alison Lowe, CEO at Touchstone said:
“Touchstone is delighted to be part of this national NHS pilot programme. We feel the specialist needs of women (and some trans men) who have been subjected to FGM has not been met by previous services and this new pilot gives us the opportunity to put that right. Touchstone’s passion is the people it serves and we are excited to amplify the voices of this much marginalised group of people for the first time.”

touchstonesupport.org.uk/female-genital-mutilation-fgm-support-clinic-launches-in-leeds/

Nope dadjoke

Hibo speaks for all women and girls

We're talking about little girls being tortured and you want Hibo to change her language so she is less able to communicate with the women and girls who are victims of this torture so she doesn't offend a tiny minority of women who find mention of the fact they're women unpalatable.

I can only assume you can't possibly have any idea how badly you're coming across right now @DadJoke. I hope the dad in your name really is a joke.

The reminder is very important.

Undermining victims of FGM, ie. women and girls, boundaries all the way.

Trans men also have vaginas. As you would say - that's biology. So it's excluding a bunch of people you would refer to as women. That's the entire basis of the very mild tweet from a trans man.

No. DadJoke I don't think I am putting words into your mouth. You stated that Hibo treated the transman on twitter harshly. I am responding to that.

I feel you are still reprimanding Hibo by stating she was 'mildly transphobic'. Enough is enough in my book.

These "attacks" are a handful of tweets from the trans men and intersex people, plus one trans woman, hugely amplified by a bunch of GC feminists.

This is some old trope, I'm afraid. I have followed Hibo and other FGM activists. This is NOT just a handful of tweets. This is a constant issue for them. And where are those trans activists (those who are not considered 'GC'), who support Hibo coming out in defence and support? I might well change my point of view if you can show me prominent trans activists calling out the 'handful', to date, I have not seen this.

No. Please stop minimising this as 'a handful' and stop inferring that Hibo was in the wrong ('mildly' or not) by stating her boundaries.

I read this type of post as undermining women's and girl's boundaries for the sake of someone else's needs.

I think this takes us to the heart of the debate: do girls and women suffer oppression and discrimination because of their sex or because of their gender identity? If you concede it's the first then it's much harder to make the argument for gender based spaces.

Just a reminder of the rest of that post of Dadjoke's:

"She's clearly slightly transphobic, yes. She has never said "it's because I don't want to dilute my message that I don't want to include trans men." When she talks about women, she's explicitly referring to biology, as do most posters here - it's trans exclusionary, the very definition of transphobic "

Trans exclusionary to talk about biology that is the basis of the oppression of girls subject to FGM. Shame on you.

@Helleofabore

You are putting a whole bunch of words into my mouth. I am not telling anyone to do anything. I think that Hibo's comments were mildly transphobic, but I that transgender people and allies should leave her be - there are much more worthy targets. Hibo is doing good work.

These "attacks" are a handful of tweets from the trans men and intersex people, plus one trans woman, hugely amplified by a bunch of GC feminists. Almost every link to Hibo on this topic is a mumsnet thread, or GC feminists doing a screencap.

👏Helleofabore .
Shame on them all!

Floisme it really is as simple as that and therefore even more inexcusable

Everything becomes an existential threat. So we see the whole 'denying that trans people exist' trope.

I don't think it's even tactical. My guess is that it's just a visceral feeling: any concession, even on this issue - especially on this issue - must be resisted

Yes, it is living in a permanent state of defence lest anything unwelcome intrude. Then having the nerve to suggest being under attack. When you are so defended then everything outside of that citadel is a threat: thoughts, words, intentions, the mere reality of the existence of others - especially when that reality diverges from your own.

And how lacking in empathy is any person that insists on this inclusive language by talking about ‘their’ alienation, their pain at not being considered by this group?

And finally, how lacking in empathy is any person who believes that a person inserting themselves into a campaign for these women and girls had been harshly treated?

All I can say is, keep posting in this style, on this board that is part of the largest patently forum in the world with a goodly portion being mothers. It really shows the complete picture of someone who is deep in their ideological world and how detached they are from the material realities of the rest of the world.

Hibo is a fucking hero. This is a great thread.

Well, from a tactical point of view I suppose. But from a moral view? How could anyone argue that nonsense and sleep at night?

Don't make the mistake of judging narcissists by the standards of the average person.

Floisme it really is as simple as that and therefore even more inexcusable

I don't think it's even tactical. My guess is that it's just a visceral feeling: any concession, even on this issue - especially on this issue - must be resisted.

Well, from a tactical point of view I suppose. But from a moral view? How could anyone argue that nonsense and sleep at night?

I kind of get why they do it. Once you acknowledge the principle that things can happen to girls and women because of their sex not their gender, then what have you got left?

YY Floisme. Genderists can make no concessions, ever.

I kind of get why they do it. Once you acknowledge the principle that things can happen to girls and women because of their sex not their gender, then what have you got left?

The insensitive, self-righteous attacks on women like Hibo is one of the most egregious missteps made by proponents of the doctrine of gender identity. Because FGM has nothing whatsoever to do with identity and everything with biology, there are no benign reasons whatsoever for bringing gender identity into this particular women's rights campaign.

Most people who hear the stories of FGM survivors are filled with deep sorrow for these women and girls and horror at what was done to them. And their instinctive reaction is that this practice of mutilating girls must stop. I honestly believe that there is something very wrong with those who on hearing these brave women speak can think only of their own feelings. For those who shame themselves by seeking to censor Hibo's language so that believers in the doctrine of gender identity can feel validated I feel nothing but revulsion. Their behaviour contributes nothing to anti-FGM campaigns and forces campaigners to waste time and energy on defending their right to name the victims as women and girls. I view the demand to sever the connection between being female and being subjected to female genital mutilation as an attempt to sabotage anti-FGM work. And that is despicable.