Anti-FGM campaigner Hibo Wardere comes under attack

You are wrong. They center men, but acknowledge that trans women also suffer from prostate cancer.

Right so that's one tweet acknowledging that transwomen have prostates.

Still, their entire campaign revolves around the words 'man and men'. Their tagline is #menwearewithyou, their badge is called the 'Man of Men' badge, and is the shape of a man made up of lots of smaller images of shapes of men. Let's just say there is a definite theme!

Meanwhile, women are getting shat on from a great height for uttering such heresy as 'only women have a uterus' and women's health charities are tying themselves in knots trying to get the message across without ever using the word 'woman' or 'girl' for fear of offending someone. And now it has moved onto FGM activists. Great.

That Touchstone project that dadj mentioned isn't really coming close to what Hibo is doing for young girls and women.

The project will support non-pregnant women who are aged 18 and over and who are survivors of FGM. The clinics will deliver services to both recent and non-recent victims, and can assist in police investigations of the FGM offence against them, only if they wish to do so.

This clinic run on a Tuesday is to support the needs of adult victims (I'm not sure why they need to be not-pregnant - maybe there is another service for them?) but is not campaigning and doesn't seem to be run by people like Hibo who share the ethnic background of the girls who are the victims so may lack a true understanding of the issues they face.

I think that advocates for 'inclusive' language may have forgotten that English will be Hibo's second or even third language. Her victims and the people she is campaigning against will have English as a second or third language.

Due to the culture of not educating girls (or limiting their education), most girls are unlikely to know what a cervix is (nearly half of fully educated adults don't know what a cervix is!) so this language would be completely pointless.

In any case, what on earth has a cervix got to do with FGM?? In case certain people are not aware FGM means cutting of a girl's labia and clitoris with an often rusty blade and no anaesthetic and sewing her up to make a small hole for weeing. The cervix is utterly irrelevant.

Why would a person who has not suffered from FGM (the tweeter appears to be a confused anime fan originally from Poland but now in London) wish to interfere with a campaigner from Somalia who has very specific knowledge and understanding of the cultural and language issues around this topic? Why anyone in their rights mind defend this person.

I would be interested to know how Touchstone have identified that FGM is an issue for transmen, why they are only interesting in girls over 18 and how many they will get through the doors?

I wonder if they have considered the issues that having male presenting people in the clinic might have for women that often have very strict cultural restrictions on where they can go? Will this clinic end up excluding victims of FGM?? It may be difficult to explain trans to a girl with no English.

I'd love to see her mention trans men, just once, but that's a wish not a demand.

Why? I really want to understand why you want someone campaigning against a horrific practice of mutilating little girls' bodies to acknowledge the fringe ideological beliefs of tiny numbers of female Westerners wholly unaffected by this practice. I don't get it.

This is a genuine question.

Why is it not enough that we accept your right to hold this belief? Why must we publicly acknowledge the belief's validity and espouse it, too?

I've never done the latter two with any religion. I doubt I ever will. On the contrary, I have analysed, critised, questioned, ridiculed and sometimes condemned various religions and their practices. I am convinced the world would be a better place without religion. But I would never interfere with anyone's right to practice their religion. I don't dispute they exist. I bear no ill will towards their believers.

My very religious friend thinks I'm totally wrong about all of the above, but what she doesn't think is that I'm phobic, hateful or bigoted for my disbelief.

So why can I not say I do not believe in the doctrine of gender identity without being told that I am all of those things?

twitter.com/search?q=(from%3AProstateUK)%20trans%20women&src=typed_query

But she does work for all women and girls

Black women and girls. Blind women and girls. Egyptian women and girls. Kenyan women and girls and the list could go on. But what unites them all is that they are women and girls

I'm so glad there's a man about to educate a woman who has been through FGM on how she should refer to her experiences.

We used to have community values where it was recognised that safeguarding children and safeguarding the vulnerable was sacrosanct - that the most vulnerable in society were owed protection by the majority and we have held to account individuals / groups who failed to do this. So it's a depressing experience watching this most vulnerable group of girls is being deliberately targeted in order to shore up a male dominated ideology that demands complete obedience from everyone.

I struggle to find the appropriate language to describe my thoughts about those who double down and repeat these slurs against Hibo.

Woman = adult human female
Girl = juvenile human female

There are no other definitions of either 'woman' or 'girl'. I say that with confidence, because whenever an alternative definition has been requested, nobody has ever put forward anything remotely cogent.

Hibo is using the words correctly, working with communities where the very concept of a transman is vanishingly rare.

We do not need to twist our language into knots to avoid biological reality. Hibo is right.

Dove indeed are total bastards. They hate women and torture animals.

Seen the dove advert on the rugby for men

They are total bastards dove. Keep just using the word men

🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️

Sorry my first paragraph was a quote there.

*Prostate Cancer UK usually talks about men suffering from prostate cancer (because it's almost always men) but reminds people once in a while that trans women have prostates, too.

And yet, women's health charities are falling over themselves to never utter the word 'woman' but instead 'people with a cervix, uterus havers and birthing bodies'.

Prostate Cancer UK's entire campaign revolves around the word MEN, it's all over their stuff. And I haven't seen much in the way of any reminders that transwomen have prostates (shhhhhhh!)

Women = women.
Trans Men = women.
Intersex Women = women.

All are covered under the word ‘women’.

Sure, I'd like to see a single tweet acknowledging that she includes intersex people and trans men, but that's not a demand.

Intersex women are women. Stop othering them. They are not a third sex.

A woman fighting against the mutilation of young girls, criticised for not centring men.

Fucking Hell, I’ve had enough of this.

No dadjoke

Hibo works for all women and girls

It’s really just that

Not complex

In summary:

I think she is doing great work.
I think it's unwise for the tiny handful of trans men and intersex people who are upset by her language to tweet at her.
I'd love to see her mention trans men, just once, but that's a wish not a demand.

Sure, I'd like to see a single tweet acknowledging that she includes intersex people and trans men, but that's not a demand.

People with any of the 40 or so conditions under the intersex umbrella are male or female. Not some other.

Sure, I'd like to see a single tweet acknowledging that she includes intersex people and trans men, but that's not a demand.

How sinister is this?

Relevant links:

The manager of a fruit-and-vegetable shop places in his window, among the onions and carrots, the slogan: "Workers of the world, unite!" Why does he do it? What is he trying to communicate to the world? Is he genuinely enthusiastic about the idea of unity among the workers of the world? Is his enthusiasm so great that he feels an irrepressible impulse to acquaint the public with his ideals? Has he really given more than a moment's thought to how such a unification might occur and what it would mean?

I think it can safely be assumed that the overwhelming majority of shopkeepers never think about the slogans they put in their windows, nor do they use them to express their real opinions. That poster was delivered to our greengrocer from the enterprise headquarters along with the onions and carrots. He put them all into the window simply because it has been done that way for years, because everyone does it, and because that is the way it has to be. If he were to refuse, there could be trouble. He could be reproached for not having the proper decoration in his window; someone might even accuse him of disloyalty. He does it because these things must be done if one is to get along in life. It is one of the thousands of details that guarantee him a relatively tranquil life "in harmony with society," as they say.

Prostate Cancer UK usually talks about men suffering from prostate cancer (because it's almost always men) but reminds people once in a while that trans women have prostates, too.

Again, has there ever been a transman that has suffered from FGM????

I think not.

Sure, I'd like to see a single tweet acknowledging that she includes intersex people and trans men, but that's not a demand.

What % of FGM victims are intersex and transmen out of interest?

Why would Hibo have to care that her referring to 'women and girls' when talking about FGM makes some people feel excluded, when those people are not victims of FGM themselves? What's to got to do with her, it's not her issue?

And again, the question remains, a victim of FGM should have the right to describe herself and who she supports in her words. I am sure that she also would know just who in the UK has been affected by this brutality.

No one should be chiding her for this. No one. Not even mildly.