Feeling really conflicted

jj1968 ah thank you. That makes a bit more sense.

Let me reiterate again- Jana Cornel has basically stopped tweeting, on account of the abuse she received.

Twitter is a great platform for raising awareness, and anime avatars chased her off, to the rousing cheers of other anime avatars.

Thanks.

I should probably just read what said user actually says, but it's usually so long and predictable I jumped to conclusions.

Ah I must admit I skimmed the word salad and thought it was the usual 'trans people are at the bottom of the pile, below disabled people.'

Which is what I take issue with because Ds has physical issues he can't identify out of.

Incidentally single sex is really important for us as ds can come in with mama until he's older, which means I can help him and I don't have to worry about his vulnerability in the men's.

I am, however, particularly utterly fed up with seeing FGM campaigners like Hibo targeted and called hateful, or women like JK Rowling get rape and death threats, and instead of condemning it outright, all we get is whataboutery about the time one man who has been long since banned criticised unnamed feminists on Twitter.

I have still not seen any trans activist condemn the rape threats that JKR got without adding a 'but' at the end.

It's interesting that your use of the word peak is still in your post, OP. I had a post removed this week for using that exact word in the same context. 🤷 I did look thru the guidelines but couldn't spot anything specific about that word.

WRT your dilemma, I agree. It feels like the world is topsy-turvy sometimes and what I once thought was liberal is now just idiotic, check-your-brain-at-the-door catchphrases.

TheBuffster I think maybe you meant to address me about using disabled toilets as an analogy?

If so, I certainly meant no whatabouttery, but thought it was a potentially helpful analogy purely to illustrate why one group's issue does not become another's to solve purely because the latter declines to share their existing facilities with the former.

Not particularly a fan of James Lindsay (I think he's a prat and I muted him so his posts stopped coming up in the feed.

But I thought the dark web was something a bit harder to access than twitter?

Hello again OP, I hope you're finding this thread useful. I've certainly found it interesting to hear how people have formed the opinions that they hold.

It's also been interesting to see that some can't accept that a particular viewpoint may be held without trying to make links with far right groups, Trump supporters, homophobia, antisemitism and conspiracy theorists. I'm waiting to see how we're somehow responsible for climate change too.

Haha, nothing like responding to accusations of conspiratorial thinking by posting a rant from some intellectual dark web gobshite edgelord about how psychopaths are secretly creating a totalitarian society by brainwashing everyone into believing a pseudo-reality.

An ad hominem attack is the first - and most telling - sign that a person cannot engage with an idea and so has to resort to namecalling.

JJ as the parent of a disabled child I respectfully ask that you stay away from using our struggles as whataboutery.

Thanks.

I have no idea what you're talking about. I started using twitter during lockdown.

And again. We're not talking about random "transinclusive feminists" whatever they are.

We're talking about an FGM campaigner. I'll repeat that again. An FGM survivor and campaigner. What kind of group can you think of who would stand for harassing an FGM campaigner?

If you’re looking at someone you consider to be a bad person and finding you agree with them, one possibility is certainly to re-examine your views, but the other possibility is to examine whether that person actually is a bad person or not. Or further yet, take a big old leap and imagine that humans arent actually easily divided into the goodies and the baddies and there’s a world of nuance and subtlety out there. It’s beyond some people, of course, who can only conceive of the world in black and white.

Did you not see the way Glinner was hounding some young feminists prior to his getting banned? Did you speak up about it?

If any feminist account attacked Hibo Wardere, especially an account using her real name, she'd be shredded by other feminists.

I'm sorry I'm not convinced of this. There have been plenty of trans inclusive feminists who have been absolutely monstered on twitter and I've rarely seen gender critical activists stand up for them.

If the Daily Mail agrees with me, so what? The people at the Daily Mail also agree with me that the Earth orbits the Sun. I'm not going to start claiming the Sun orbits the Earth just to be on the opposite side to the Daily Mail.

This!

It doesn't really matter to me who else thinks that biological sex is real, that women are adult humans females, that men are not women and that women are entitled to single sex spaces. I couldn't give a fuck.

I'm certainly not about to allow single sex spaces to be abolished so that I can be on 'the right side'.

Perhaps I'll take a leaf out of my son's book. He told me yesterday that sewing was fun, because you got to stab the fabric over and over again.

It's surprisingly loud when he's doing a cross-stitch kit.

I find that in the absence of a mute button, developing an automatic habit of scrolling past the long posts that follow certain screen names is very helpful. You owe no one your time.
/helpful feminist.

It is strange how Guilt by Association only goes one way.

Yes. But they get me angry. And when I get angry, I tend to do things, like writing letters.

Oh, wonder if any TRAs have spoken to Zoe Williams to say that they appreciate trans-inclusive services, but they don't want them at the expense of women with learning disabilities or poor literacy?

I'm sure there are loads of them speaking up for the needs of marginalised women.

I know you know this really.

JJ does, and these threads tend to go round and round and lose focus on the original clear point.

If it were really a minority opinion amongst people id'ing as trans activists, you'd drown them out.

It would become verboten to do something like it.

If any feminist account attacked Hibo Wardere, especially an account using her real name, she'd be shredded by other feminists.

This. Mysteriously. Does. Not. Happen. Amongst. The TRAs.

You want to castigate GC feminists because someone's video is hosted on a site next to something rightwing, then you need to look at the online trans community. If a community is anti women's rights, then you cannot complain that a few women notice.

No-one needed to "present" me with TRAs being vile. I found it all on my own. By fricking accident.