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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Daughter (10) says she wants to be a boy

86 replies

Gooseygoosey12345 · 18/02/2021 13:12

My dd has spoken to her dad, who she asked to speak to me, about that fact that she feels like she's a boy and has done for some time. I can't express how I feel about this. I'm so confused and she's back this afternoon so I need to get my head on straight.

As a feminist this is really difficult for me to organise in my mind (if that makes sense). I've always held the view that gender is a social construct, we don't live by stereotypes and women's rights are a huge theme in our house. I don't believe you can change your gender.

However, she's my daughter, who I've raised to believe that her body is her own and the decisions that she makes for her body are hers (age appropriately).

I want to believe that this is a phase by I also understand that this language can be damaging. Understanding trans psychology is part of my training but putting that into practice when it's your own child is easier said than done, and there's 2 sides to that coin as well!

What do I do? At this point I feel she's far too young to actively do anything about it. She's mature for her age but she is still only 10 and I don't believe she understands the implications of what she's saying fully. She's asked to change her name which I'm not comfortable with yet, but then again, this isn't about me.

Any advice or experience would be gratefully received!

OP posts:
Gooseygoosey12345 · 18/02/2021 16:02

@MexicanStreet see I'm wary of going down that route straight away. While that is entirely my opinion (and biological fact) I don't want her to be in the mindset that she's stuck and feel desperate at any point.
I have a feeling she probably will grow out of it, I think she's had a lot of change with hormones recently, plus she hasn't been able to properly connect with her friends, it must be having an impact.
I couldn't agree more with you about the whole frilly thing. She's very forward and mature and I remember not identifying with all the hyper sexual stuff at her age, and older, too.
She doesn't fit in with her peers, you're right. She's not super girly whereas her friends are. I can't wait til we can access some more clubs for her. I have also considered that she may be on the autism spectrum as well, previous to this, and this has kind of compounded it a bit more for me
Thank you for your help!

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Mischance · 18/02/2021 16:00

One of my DDs was a "boy" for about a year at the same age. We just let it wash past us and did not make an issue of it. She called herself Ben. It passed.

Mind you the year before she had been a dog!

I think it is important to accept it and show her tons of love, but not probe too much or make a big deal of it. It will come clear over time whether this is something that is likely to lead to something more permanent. But just now she is a child, and she is experimenting with who she is. Lots of girls quite fancy being a boy when their periods start - and who can blame them?

ScrapThatThen · 18/02/2021 15:59

Lots of listening, acceptance and 'Come back to me or dad if there are things that are not working out for you, we can work things out together' and then refocus on to things around personal identity (what skills does she want to enjoy developing, what hobby groups does she want to be part of, what responsibilities is she ready for at home, what's great about her, how can she treat her body well and use it well as it changes).

Horehound · 18/02/2021 15:58

She doesn't know what it means to feel like a boy. She means she feels like she prefers stereotypical boy things...

Gooseygoosey12345 · 18/02/2021 15:57

@fallfallfall she's not made a huge deal of it, again it's been pretty normalised in our household but you're probably right. I'm 30 and don't like having them! I don't want to mess with her hormones though. The side effects just aren't worth it. I'd rather her know it's a normal part of life and help her deal with it

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MexicanStreet · 18/02/2021 15:56

I would tell her that she cannot change her sex. Talk about xx chromosomes and the physical body. And that her body is not always going to be the same so she might feel differently during other stages in her life. Tell her that as a girl she has an advantage over boys in that she doesn't have to conform with gender stereotypes in the same way boys do. She can wear plain jean and t-shirt / hoodie / trainer in neutral colours. She can wear her hair short and do any sport she likes.

In my honest view unless there is a proper gender dysphoria situation which is very, very rare she is most likely to grow out of it.

I think the whole frilly, hyper sexualized way of styling up that is common among some a teen girl especially on social media must be most off putting for any smart and sensitive girl.

Explore what her interests are and look for new clubs and activities that make her feel like she fits in. I'd worry that she has been exposed to trans pr online. She probably doesn't fit in with her peers and is looking for explanations for this. The most likely explanation: she is either very smart and generally a bit non conforming, or possibly on the autistic spectrum.

Gooseygoosey12345 · 18/02/2021 15:55

Thank you for the film recommendations! It can only help.
I'm really quite strict with internet access but I think I'll have to take another look. I want them to be able to access information but it needs to be unbiased and factual. She's definitely aware of all types of women. I really don't fit the stereotypical feminine role but my sister does and my mum is somewhere in between. I've explained to her that she can do what she wants, behave how she wants, it's not restricted by gender. I hope that helps her.

@persistentwoman thank you, that is honestly so encouraging for me

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fallfallfall · 18/02/2021 15:53

@CharlieParley, I know but periods are not nice so much better to be on the other end of the spectrum. I’d see a dr and get those stopped for a few years.

Gooseygoosey12345 · 18/02/2021 15:52

@Whatstheweatherlike ah thank you! I don't feel level headed at all at the moment but I do generally tend to be logical so that's probably helping! I really want her to have all types of role model but it's very "traditional" where we live, it would do us all good to expand our social group but I don't really know how to go about it.

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CharlieParley · 18/02/2021 15:46

@ArabellaScott

10 is so very young to be faced with having to deal with period for so many years

Is 10 not the average age for period onset, now? I know it's come down in recent years.

Average age at onset of menarche is still at almost 13 years. It hasn't really come down in the last 50 years, although it's much discussed. (There was a decrease by about a year between the late 19th and mid-20th century from 14+ at onset of menarche to 13, but any decrease since the 1950s has been small.)

The age range for the onset of menarche in the UK is 10 to 15, so 10 is a little early, but still normal.

Justhadathought · 18/02/2021 15:41

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tomboy_(2011_film): This time a french film called 'Tom Boy'

Tomboy is a 2011 French drama film written and directed by Céline Sciamma. The story follows a 10-year-old gender non-conforming child, Laure, who moves to a new neighbourhood during the summer holiday and experiments with their gender presentation, adopting the name Mickaël.

Tomboy was released on DVD-Video and Blu-ray in the United Kingdom on 5 March 2012, and in the United States on 5 June 2012.

fallfallfall · 18/02/2021 15:39

I bet she hates having her periods. I can’t imagine being 10 and having to deal with that...

persistentwoman · 18/02/2021 15:38

That's a lovely post OP. It sounds as if you'll 'hold' her well through this.

Watchful waiting...

BigGreen · 18/02/2021 15:36

Definitely recommend watching TV shows with strong lesbian or bisexual characters.

Branleuse · 18/02/2021 15:36

I would try and find out what she means by that. Id also monitor the sites shes going on the internet.
I think at that age I made sure my daughter was aware that there were loads of types of women and personality types. Id talk about how annoying it is that girls are expected to be feminine and boys are expected to be masculine and how it just restricts people from expressing their true personality, because she can be as masculine as she likes and wear any clothes she likes and do anything that is supposed to be for boys, but doesnt mean she isnt a girl

Justhadathought · 18/02/2021 15:32

I'm trying to think of some age appropriate films you could watch together.

Personally, love coming of age films in which young girls ( or boys) struggle as they come up against the demands of society and their own developing sense of themselves. However, my favourites are mostly unsuitable for that age group.

There is a great New Zealand film called Whale Rider - about a young girl, who is of a similar age to your daughter, who comes up against the male inheritance tradition in Maori culture.

It's ultimately a very up-lifting and rewarding film. Perhaps you could check it out and see if you think it may be suitable for her?

Another one I love is Corpo Celeste. An Italian film, set in Calabria, and featuring a young girl - aged 12 - who struggles with the expectations put on her in a traditional catholic community. There is a great scene where she roughly cuts off her own long hair, in an act at once of penitence, but also, ultimately, of liberation

Whatstheweatherlike · 18/02/2021 15:08

You seem really level-headed about this and it sounds like you've got a fantastic relationship with your daughter. Yes, I probably should have mentioned in my previous post, I was becoming aware of having feelings towards girls which was so at odds with the discussions girls were having about which boy they fancied. This did increase that feeling of 'otherness' between me and other girls. Knowing strong lesbian and bisexual role models would no doubt have helped me at that time.

Gooseygoosey12345 · 18/02/2021 14:53

Sorry yes, should have specified. Her father and I split when she was very young but we've maintained a great relationship since.
The internet usage is always supervised, limited time and parental controls blocking inappropriate content.
Also very lucky with the school that they're open about things like this but not "encouraging" (couldn't think of a better way to say what I mean). They just let them be and teach them to respect each other.
Happy for a less feminine nickname, I just don't want her to make any permanent decisions yet.
I think she hasn't spent any time thinking she identifies with other boys, she doesn't have any friends who are boys, but her friends are quite "girly" which maybe she feels at odds with.

You've all given some absolutely excellent advice. I definitely don't want it to become a battle or for her to feel she's at odds with us. She mentioned that she liked girls and potentially she might be conflating that with being male as she doesn't have any gay role models. I definitely want her to be supported mentally and to be happy, that's the most important thing but I just don't want her to think that now she's said it that she can't go back on it if she decides.

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IvyTwines · 18/02/2021 14:46

I'm another one for asking her 'why?'. What is it about being female that might be scaring her? Has someone been making comments about her body, or interests or activities that she is not 'allowed' to do, being a girl? Is it the apparent social freedom males have that she's envying? Is it the behavioural expectations social media is feeding her? If so, ask her why she feels she needs to change herself, rather than wanting to change society into something less misogynistic. So many YA books and film franchises are about apparently powerless figures rebelling and fighting against huge bad forces - the answer to patriarchal power is to be a freedom fighter like Rey or Frodo, not join the Stormtroopers.

Whatstheweatherlike · 18/02/2021 14:28

As another woman who went through this (was known as Tom for about 2 years) I would second showing unconditional love and showing you are there for her without placing too much pressure on providing explanations. I think talking when it feels right, but backing off if things become heated is probably a reasonable balance. I had short hair, boys clothes and remember getting a real kick out of someone thinking I was a boy. My mum never said much about it and over time the desire passed. Knowing there were no particular battles with my parents about it meant I could gradually grow my hair or change clothes without lots of pressure or uncomfortable conversations.

When I reflect on that time, I now know it came from a place of really low self esteem. By removing myself from the 'girl group' I was probably trying to prevent comparisons between me and other girls as I had an overwhelming feeling that they were all somehow different and superior to me. I don't think I spent much time actually considering the benefits of being a boy and I certainly never thought ahead to growing up as a man and being like my dad. I realise everyone has their own experiences but for me it really had very little to do with actually thinking I identified with other boys.

ArabellaScott · 18/02/2021 14:21

10 is so very young to be faced with having to deal with period for so many years

Is 10 not the average age for period onset, now? I know it's come down in recent years.

Squish3 · 18/02/2021 14:20

@Gooseygoosey12345 already some great answers here OP 😊 I think it’s also worth remembering...DD has felt confident enough to voice this to her parents so clearly she feels able to talk to you! Lots of children go through things...whether “phases” or something more...and bottle everything up. Make sure you keep the conversation open for her 😊

You say you’re not comfortable with a name change at the moment. If DD says that’s what she would like is there a “less feminine” nickname that could be taken from her current name that you could suggest to her? That might make exploring any possible changes easier for both of you?

OhHolyJesus · 18/02/2021 14:12

Forgive me OP but I wondered if you might be separated from her father? No judgement on whether you are or you aren't but I wondered if you lived together? Maybe she just asked him to tell you for some other reason, I agree with Midge and wouldn't ask why, just let her know you can talk if she wants. Having just started her periods aged 10 that's a likely trigger for this I imagine. That's so awful for her, 10 is so very young to be faced with having to deal with period for so many years. Asking why might make her have to justify it and explain it and it could lead to you being under pressure to take action otherwise you are 'unsupportive'.

I'm sure I don't need to tell you anything about socially transitioning a child of that age and what harm it can do. Once you have got more from her about what's behind it you can decide what, if anything you need to do or tell the school. I'm wording this badly but I just hope the school don't go full on with her at school at the mere whiff of her feeling differently about her body now, even a hair cut would raise eyebrows from some woke teachers.

A friend had something similar with her youngest at a similar age. She had very long hair and had it cut very short but there was no name or pronouns change and at every question the mother was asked she just said it made the daughter more comfortable. I think even a pronoun or name change would have been disastrous but she was as a Stonewall champion school at the time.

ArabellaScott · 18/02/2021 14:11

Active listening is a wonderful way of helping a child feel safe, supported and heard. Agree with posters above, reassure your daughter, spend extra time with her, allow space and time for her to discuss things, ask questions, etc.

Also, I would monitor and manage her internet usage. I would advise this for any child of that age, tbh! But there is so much disinformation and nonsense on the internet, and children's critical thinking skills are so nascent, I would be especially careful about what they are exposed to.

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