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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Perspectives on the sex/gender pay gap

31 replies

JackNicholson · 18/02/2021 12:49

Sorry to state the obvious. I don't know a great deal about this, and know you lot will educate me...

So it seems to me that Jordan Peterson (who sometimes does and sometimes doesn't have good points) has a good point on this - men and women are just attracted to different jobs. The sexes are different (as we on this board well know) and, on average, more women are attracted into (e.g.) the caring professions, and more men into (e.g.) the financial sector. So then a key element of the pay problem is that the caring professions (for example) are woefully underpaid. The sexism isn't (just) necessarily in opportunities for individuals per se, it's in the fact that sexism is so hugely ingrained that it's in all the pay structures to the core. Is this where most of the work should focus? Nursing strikes, etc.?

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SorryPleaseTryAgain · 18/02/2021 13:07

Agree with MidgeDude. Also, when men do go in to female dominated fields/activities, it's given higher status. Think male chefs, head teachers, make up artists, hair dressers etc.

Caketroubles · 18/02/2021 13:06

Last night, I read this very patronising post on LinkedIn from a female scientist. Apparently, there is not much need of a Women in Science day anymore because we have already achieved equality and because she ‘can’t see how men and women around her are different’. Hmm pissed me right off. Thankfully, a few men got angry enough to tell her off and point her politely in the direction of data. Her position of privilege was evident and she gathered a few responses from men who were fully in her favour too. It’s so sad to see how there are so many blind spots still.

bourbonne · 18/02/2021 13:02

What about the fact that the gap only appears after age 30, i.e. when people start families? (I think that's true?)

That makes me think that this is first and foremost an issue about how we support families and make it possible for women (in particular) to maintain a rewarding career post-kids - and for men to have more flexibility to take on more caring responsibilities.

I think I heard that men tend to be at the extremes - the highest earners are usually men, but they are also disproportionately represented in the lowest-paid, less skilled and most precarious jobs, so at the bottom of the social scale you're likely to find unemployed men supported by employed women. Anyone else heard or read this?

midgedude · 18/02/2021 13:02

It's also interesting to ask Why do women tend to some jobs not others

And it's not that caring roles are undervalued . History shows (example computing ) that if men started to take such roles more often, wages would increase

ButWhatAbout · 18/02/2021 13:01

First off, I loathe Jordan Peterson.

I agree that men and women are generally attracted to different jobs, though it is hard to say why that is, nature or nurture? Really, not much time has passed since many jobs were off limits to women. How many generations might it take to get rid of the ingrained expectations in society?

However, the main issue in my opinion is that anything that women do is given low status in society and in a capitalist society low status = low/no pay. Women do huge amounts of unpaid labour (caring for children, elderly/ill relatives etc) and low paid labour (again caring for children, old and ill people) that is actually very important work in a society.

I therefore think that the sex pay gap is not very useful as it looks women simply "choose" the wrong jobs and "choose" to take time out to have children, when actually women contribute just as much, if not more, to society as men do with these choices. It's simply not recognised in a capitalist society.

JackNicholson · 18/02/2021 12:55

The financial sector is parasitic in essence, and caring for vulnerable people must be one of the most important jobs there is.
How have we got to a place where people who are attracted into the former are some of the most powerful in society and people attracted to the latter are shat on repeatedly from a great height. Again, this is so obvious, but it makes me so fucking furious at the moment.

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