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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Lib Dem women say what?

105 replies

vivariumvivariumsvivaria · 18/02/2021 11:07

Thanks, @Xanthangum for posting this on the holy 50:50 thread.

www.libdemwomen.org.uk/pro_trans_rights_open_letter

The first point says:

  1. Variations in sex and gender, however they manifest, are a simple fact of human physiology and psychology, and neither the state nor society should pass judgement on people who deviate from what is considered the norm

Can anyone help me understand what that means? Because medicine has long since considered the "norm" to be the male body.

Do I deviate from the norm with my awkward Y chromosome? State and society certainly judges me for that.

I have voted Lib Dem in the past. I have met some of the people who have signed this open letter.

They didn't appear to be idiots at the time. Can anyone help me translate what this actually means - there is a vote coming up in Scotland, so I have until May to find somewhere to put mine.

OP posts:
PotholeParadies · 18/02/2021 11:33

@RedToothBrush

First name at the top. April Preston.

Radical Association again in control...

This lot are the authoritarian looney tunes of the party who don't understand the word liberal.

Good spot. If she told me it was raining, I'd look out of the window to check.
RedToothBrush · 18/02/2021 11:30

First name at the top. April Preston.

Radical Association again in control...

This lot are the authoritarian looney tunes of the party who don't understand the word liberal.

sleepyhead · 18/02/2021 11:26

And for avoidance of doubt in this crazy mixed up world, when I say woman or man in that first paragraph, I mean adult human female/male.

sleepyhead · 18/02/2021 11:24

Thing is, I can totally go with that, except I know what they actually mean (and it's not how I'm reading it).

So when I read that, I parse it as:

Variations in physical characteristics, are a simple fact of human physiology (e.g some women have more body hair than average, some women may have very little breast tissue, some men are short, some men may have a lot of breast tissue, some people have chromosomal disorders that might affect their appearance in a way that isn't "typical" of their sex) and no one should be mocked or disadvantaged or pushed by society to change their body just because they don't fit our expectations of what that body should look like.

Variations in gender expression (such as boys liking pink and sparkles, girls wanting short hair), are a simple fact of human psychology, and neither the state nor society should pass judgement on people who deviate from what is considered the norm.

Hurrah for both of these things!

But I think the devil is in the "however they manifest" and means ladybrain and TWAW.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 18/02/2021 11:14

1. Variations in sex and gender, however they manifest, are a simple fact of human physiology and psychology, and neither the state nor society should pass judgement on people who deviate from what is considered the norm

They are bundling together medical disorders of sex development and gender identity to attempt to make the case for gender identity ideological views.