Active discussions

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

HCPC collecting diversity data and have 'forgotten' to ask about sex.

32 replies

CircleofWillis · 18/02/2021 10:58

I have just taken part in a major survey on diversity by the HCPC. It asked me in detail about my age, ethnicity, sexual orientation, gender and trans status but didn't ask a single question about my sex. How is that reasonable or responsible? How on earth can they publish the findings and consider it to be comprehensive? The confounding variable of gender tells them nothing at all about the distribution of women vs men but they will be able to tell you all about trans women vs trans men and non binary people. This is shocking and utterly ridiculous!

OP posts:
New posts on this thread. Refresh page
MichelleScarn · 19/02/2021 08:45

On a positive note but not related to this survey, am very pleased to see the form we use to enter our lateral flow results asks for sex, and its NHS.

MoreHairyThanScary · 19/02/2021 08:17

It is ridiculous isn't it.

Given the way that Covid affects one sex more than the other it's important information to collect.

Even our bloody risk assessment at work ( healthcare) had gender....how can you effectively assess risk if you don't look at the correct variable ( yes I did point it out but nothing has changed).

HalfSizeMe · 19/02/2021 08:15

In a similar note, the College of Paramedics has published their belonging and inclusion strategy, but it declares gender instead of sex as a protected characteristic

highame · 19/02/2021 08:08

At what stage does this group stop and start to consider the long term damage of individual actions? I can only think of what has happened in the past. Once fear is broken down, so that the vilified group (GC women e.g.) starts to be heard, there seems to be a gradual process back to the middle ground. The issue is, that if society at large starts to back the vilified group (as now) the pendulum can swing too far.

Original poster
CircleofWillis · 19/02/2021 07:50

[quote TalkingtoLangClegintheDark]How can they make this statement and then completely ignore the possibility of sex based challenges? It really is shocking and indefensible.

You might want to look at this thread... makes some sense of the nonsense:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4169150-Pseudo-realities-Power-and-Language-Games[/quote]
Thank you for the link. I'm still thinking about the ideas in the quotes that these pseudo realities are driven by states of mental unwellness at their core. But they are spread and maintained by well meaning converts who do not necessarily wholly believe but are carried along on the wave. (Have I understood that correctly?)

This quote from the thread resonated with me.

Pseudo-realities are always social fictions, which, in light of the above, means political fictions. That is, they are maintained not because they are true, in the sense that they correspond to reality, either material or human, but because a sufficient quantity of people in the society they attack either believe them or refuse to challenge them.

I would add to that there is a state between believing and refusing to challenge that many of the people I know exist in. They don't truly believe in the pseudo reality and they are not against it so have no need to challenge. Instead,

  1. They are benefitting socially from adopting what is currently seen as the moral position.
  2. They are benefitting mentally by seeing themselves as moral crusaders against dark forces.
  3. They are experiencing visceral enjoyment at having a clearly sanctioned enemy to oppose (how can you be a superhero without an evil to combat?)
  4. They are gaining approbation from a tribe with whom they are happy to be affiliated.
  5. Both organisations and individuals are avoiding being cast out and vilified alongside the sanctioned enemy by actively aligning themselves with the pseudo reality.

I think that I am finding all of this so hard to accept as I believe most people subscribing to this particular pseudo reality are in the third group. They do not truly believe and know they do not believe but are going along with it for any or all of the reasons I have listed.

At what stage does this group stop and start to consider the long term damage of individual actions?

OP posts:
AfternoonToffee · 18/02/2021 21:19

The only saving grace is that the word "cis" did not make an appearance.

DeathAndTaxis · 18/02/2021 21:18

Thanks for the reminder - I'll complete this, and make some comments too. I can't believe I pay to be represented by a professional body that don't recognise my sex.

SnarkyBag · 18/02/2021 20:32

I have this email too but haven’t got round to it but think I may add my comments also. Thanks for pointing it out

Cynara · 18/02/2021 20:01

I'm so glad that you've posted this OP - I've had the email from them and haven't been arsed to complete the survey, but now that you've flagged this up I'll get onto it tomorrow and add my two penn'orth. Bloody embarrassing to be registered as a medical professional by a professional body that can't recognise biological sex.

TalkingtoLangClegintheDark · 18/02/2021 19:48

How can they make this statement and then completely ignore the possibility of sex based challenges? It really is shocking and indefensible.

You might want to look at this thread... makes some sense of the nonsense:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4169150-Pseudo-realities-Power-and-Language-Games

Original poster
CircleofWillis · 18/02/2021 14:40

These are the stated aims of the survey.

  • We are asking registrants to complete the survey because it is vital that we have an accurate understanding of equality, diversity and inclusion across our professions. This is especially crucial during this time because of the different impacts the pandemic has had on groups of registrants.

With your input we will be able to gain a better understanding of the impact of our policies and processes on registrants and recognise some of the challenges faced by different groups.

Your input will also help us identify what measures we need to put in place to better support you.*

How can they make this statement and then completely ignore the possibility of sex based challenges?

OP posts:
AfternoonToffee · 18/02/2021 13:19

talking it was in regards to the health professionals.

The majority of questions were written with input from SW, hence the quality of them.

Original poster
CircleofWillis · 18/02/2021 13:19

@TalkingtoLangClegintheDark

Out of interest, does the survey relate to health professionals themselves, or to the patients they treat?
It relates to us as health care professionals ourselves.
OP posts:
highame · 18/02/2021 13:08

This is why Ann Sinnotts AEA company, latest fund raiser is so important. It's ages before she gets to court, so needs to do what the GEO & EHRC wouldn't which is to inform all those who were mis-informed.

I think we should take a class action against civil service for not doing their jobs properly - any chance????

TalkingtoLangClegintheDark · 18/02/2021 13:07

Out of interest, does the survey relate to health professionals themselves, or to the patients they treat?

TalkingtoLangClegintheDark · 18/02/2021 13:06

you would hope they were educated to know better

Sadly it sounds like it’s exactly the “education” they’ve had that’s the problem.

But yeah. You would think health professionals would get this. And yet... RCN, BMA, RCM, GMC - all captured. People who really SHOULD know better.

CranberriesChoccyAgain · 18/02/2021 13:04

@CircleofWillis That's shocking really. You'd think in healthcare especially, knowing biological sex is much more practical and useful than gender identity.

TalkingtoLangClegintheDark · 18/02/2021 13:02

Such bullshit.

Well done anyway for commenting, albeit in straitened form!

Original poster
CircleofWillis · 18/02/2021 13:00

@PurpleWh1teGreen

Is this the HealthCare Professions Council?

If so, you would hope they were educated to know better. Then again...

Yes indeed. You would hope so.
OP posts:
EdgeOfACoin · 18/02/2021 13:00

Not the same survey but I filled out a different diversity one yesterday which asked for my gender and gave me a glittering array of options. In the free-text box I told them that my sex was female and that gender was nothing but a set of sexist stereotypes.

The next question asked me whether my gender identity matched my sex registered at birth (which at least wasn't 'assigned' at birth). The available options were 'yes', 'no' and 'prefer not to say'. I ticked 'prefer not to say' as I couldn't say that I didn't have a gender identity!

Original poster
CircleofWillis · 18/02/2021 13:00

Does anyone HR/legal minded know whether it is illegal to gather info on ALL the other protected characteristics except sex??

Interesting question choosandchips

In addition, I answered the questionnaire in response to an email saying 90% of people had not responded. I suspect that many of the 10% of people who had responded have a particular interest in diversity which may influence the results further.

OP posts:
Original poster
CircleofWillis · 18/02/2021 12:50

@CranberriesChoccyAgain

Is it possible they are actually asking (or attempting to ask) about sex but think the word 'sex' is another word for intercourse and prefer 'gender'?
No they state on one page that they have have been advised by Stonewall so definitely not a mistake due to coyness.
OP posts:
PurpleWh1teGreen · 18/02/2021 12:47

Is this the HealthCare Professions Council?

If so, you would hope they were educated to know better. Then again...

CranberriesChoccyAgain · 18/02/2021 12:46

Is it possible they are actually asking (or attempting to ask) about sex but think the word 'sex' is another word for intercourse and prefer 'gender'?

Please create an account

To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account.

Join Mumsnet Log In

This thread is closed and is no longer accepting replies. Click here to start a new thread.

Swipe left for the next trending thread