Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

How many women (or men) identify as cisgender?

485 replies

hallouminatus · 17/02/2021 21:02

On another forum, I said "Most women don't identify as cisgender, and many feel that describing them as such is disrespectful". Someone has asked me for evidence of this. I think it's probably true, but I haven't seen any statistics or even estimates of numbers. I'm interested in any evidence or arguments which would either support or refute my statement.

OP posts:
334bu · 22/02/2021 18:45

Or the man could say that he was just a man and the transwoman a transwoman.

That works tooSmile

FrippEnos · 22/02/2021 18:39

However, a man can distinguish himself from a transwoman by saying he is a cisgender male and the transwoman is a non cisgender male

Or the man could say that he was just a man and the transwoman a transwoman.

There is no need for cis at all.

SheldonesqueIsUnwell · 22/02/2021 18:05

If cis is all important to some, how about they call themselves non cis women/non cis men? Job done.

I’m happy with woman to describe me. I don’t need no cis.

334bu · 22/02/2021 17:57

Calling myself cis isn't a problem for me. It may be a problem for you but doesn't trouble me in the slightest.
I'm as much cis as I am European.

Of course you are if talking about yourself and a transman. Both of you are female and you identify with your sex and a transman does not. Although strictly speaking the transman should call themselves a transgender woman. Your cisgendershio cannot be used to distinguish yourself from a transwoman as you don't share the same set, in this case sex. However, a man can distinguish himself from a transwoman by saying he is a cisgender male and the transwoman is a non cisgender male.

Imaginetoday · 22/02/2021 16:37

No...cis is basically stamping me with a stereotype of (woman) gender
Fought all my life to battle impacts of gender stereotype of my sex. ain’t going to roll over and accept someone gender stereotyping me now

MissBarbary · 22/02/2021 16:33

I'm not sure "European" is particularly helpful given European is neither an ethnicity nor a legal status.

GoldenBlue · 22/02/2021 16:01

I think Sionnach is having a bit of a rough ride. I accept their right to identify as CIS if they want.

However I expect the same acceptance that I absolutely do not identify as CIS and many others on this chain feel the same.

I can't claim to understand the rationale. Personally I am offended when referred to as CIS as I don't believe I need a qualifier within the women's bracket. But I think in part my concern is that it reinforces stereotypes, i'm a woman and I like baking but I also like tree climbing and riding a motorbike and I don't want those things denied to a girl unless she classes herself as a man, manly, masculine etc. Similarly I don't believe my pink loving, makeup wearing son needs to be a girl to make those choices. Gender just seems like old fashioned stereotypes for people who weren't born in the 80's and lived through the breaking of boundaries and burning of stereotypes via Bowie, Adam and the Ants, Boy George, Annie Lennox, Duran Duran etc. Very sad for them really.

This one of those things that one person being ok with cannot over ride others saying No. Similar to one person being ok with unisex bathrooms can't override other women's requirement to keep sex based spaces

Ereshkigalangcleg · 22/02/2021 15:21

Quite, merrymouse. That's where I am with it.

merrymouse · 22/02/2021 15:20

People are likely to respect your choice for yourself if you in turn respect their choice for themselves.

I think 'respect' is going too far. Maybe 'accept people's absolute right to have strange ideas that they can't explain as long as they are harmless'.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 22/02/2021 15:19

You can call yourself whatever you like Sionnach. You can equally call yourself maverique, scoliosexual, whatever niche labels you want to apply to yourself, obviously. It doesn't bother me, it's just clear that nobody really has any decent arguments for why the average person should adopt the label "cis". I won't be joining you, for the clear reasons I've stated.

DialSquare · 22/02/2021 15:18

This was also in the OP

"I'm interested in any evidence or arguments which would either support or refute my statement."

merrymouse · 22/02/2021 15:18

'Able bodied' isn't an identity either. People have or don't have disabilities regardless of their identity.

It really doesn't matter whether you 'bother me'. I'm just a stranger on the internet. However, it might be helpful for you to be aware that your concept of identity is offensive.

MichelleofzeResistance · 22/02/2021 15:16

I suppose it comes down to whether or not you feel an entitlement to forcibly label other people whether or not they agree, consent or identify with the label you have chosen for them.

Call yourself whatever you like. People are likely to respect your choice for yourself if you in turn respect their choice for themselves.

When it becomes a 'you MUST respect that person but no one needs to respect how you feel and you don't get to choose' situation, it's going nowhere positive, is it?

SionnachRua · 22/02/2021 15:13

@merrymouse

Try neurotypical on for size.

Neurotypical isn't a personal identity, and it is offensive to suggest that it is.

I'll happily identify myself as neurotypical and able bodied. And cis.

If that bothers you, well...I don't care, actually. I suppose it'll just continue to bother you.

merrymouse · 22/02/2021 15:11

Try neurotypical on for size.

Neurotypical isn't a personal identity, and it is offensive to suggest that it is.

SionnachRua · 22/02/2021 15:06

@Ereshkigalangcleg

I'm as much cis as I am European.

Are there any other medical conditions you describe yourself as not having, as a personal identity?

Sure. Try neurotypical on for size.
Ereshkigalangcleg · 22/02/2021 15:06

Women are not a subset of our own sex. We are the sex, so trying to claim it refers to a group of male people doesn't work for me.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 22/02/2021 15:04

If I were to adopt "cis" as a label on a chilly day in hell, it would be to distinguish myself as someone who doesn't identify as the opposite sex, from those women (adult human females) who identify as "trans men".

Ereshkigalangcleg · 22/02/2021 15:02

It does, doesn't it?

merrymouse · 22/02/2021 15:02

A conversation with you about it doesn't interest me. That's as simple as I can make this. I answered a question posed by an OP.

You obviously have no obligation to defend the concept of 'cis', but the lack of people who are prepared to do so continues to suggest that it is indefensible .

Ereshkigalangcleg · 22/02/2021 15:01

You're European because you were born in and/or live in Europe. It's not really the same.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 22/02/2021 15:00

A conversation with you about it doesn't interest me.

I imagine that's because you don't really have any answers and simply adopt an identity label because you think you should, without questioning anything much.

AlwaysTawnyOwl · 22/02/2021 14:59

Not me nor any woman I know. Totally offensive.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 22/02/2021 14:58

I'm as much cis as I am European.

Are there any other medical conditions you describe yourself as not having, as a personal identity?

SionnachRua · 22/02/2021 14:53

@merrymouse

Now, there's a whole other conversation that MN will dive into about gender roles etc. But that's not the main focus of the thread and I'm not particularly interested in engaging in a circular argument. I've just responded to the question.

It's an unavoidable part of the conversation. You might as well say "I believe the earth is flat" and then not explain why.

A conversation with you about it doesn't interest me. That's as simple as I can make this. I answered a question posed by an OP.
Swipe left for the next trending thread