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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

How many women (or men) identify as cisgender?

485 replies

hallouminatus · 17/02/2021 21:02

On another forum, I said "Most women don't identify as cisgender, and many feel that describing them as such is disrespectful". Someone has asked me for evidence of this. I think it's probably true, but I haven't seen any statistics or even estimates of numbers. I'm interested in any evidence or arguments which would either support or refute my statement.

OP posts:
Pixilicious · 18/02/2021 14:14

Nope!

midgedude · 18/02/2021 14:12

Body dysmorphia would still exist.. focus on hated of your body

Likely to affect teenagers coping with body changes

Probably affects a tiny number of children from birth... my mam taught primary for over 40 years and only ever came across one child who got confused about what sex they were

Pan2 · 18/02/2021 14:11

Nope. All man...no cis involved......

work in a very supine sector - dreading the exhortation to use pronouns. That is a small, unregarded mound I will argue on endlessly until I am left alone.Smile

Bibidy · 18/02/2021 14:04

@Justhadathought

To identify as 'cis' you'd have to think that what makes a woman is not the body, but some other 'inner quality'; but in contradiction to that and at the same time, you'd also have to hold to a more reality based definition of sex in the first place to 'identify as' a woman at all.

'Identifying as' a woman therefore implies feeling you conform to gendered expectations of what a woman was is supposed to think, feel and behave like, but that your body has got nothing to do with anything.

Yes I have noted this too and think it's odd as to me it cancels out the whole idea of people being trans at all.

If a woman's body has nothing to do with whether she is a woman or not and gender is generally regarded as an artificial societal construct, then the urge to live as the opposite sex to the one you were born with is invalid surely?

CranberriesChoccyAgain · 18/02/2021 14:00

Nope. I do not consent to being categorised as a subset of my own sex. I'm not a type of woman. I AM a woman.

Winesalot · 18/02/2021 13:58

Lol as if anyone on this board is going to say "oh yes, me, I describe myself as cis"

And yet, posters have come and said it. There are many who do agree and who regularly post that they do.

However, does it surprise you to see that there are so many who reject the term and reject the reason for its use? have you been led to believe that it is only a few women who disagree?

Justhadathought · 18/02/2021 13:57

To identify as 'cis' you'd have to think that what makes a woman is not the body, but some other 'inner quality'; but in contradiction to that and at the same time, you'd also have to hold to a more reality based definition of sex in the first place to 'identify as' a woman at all.

'Identifying as' a woman therefore implies feeling you conform to gendered expectations of what a woman was is supposed to think, feel and behave like, but that your body has got nothing to do with anything.

sansucre · 18/02/2021 13:56

I am a biological female. I am a woman; an adult human female. I will never accept (or tick) the cisgender option.

ErrolTheDragon · 18/02/2021 13:54

I wonder, apropos of nothing, what the relative numbers are of 'people who identify as cisgender' versus 'people who like taking a pop at feminists'.

ErrolTheDragon · 18/02/2021 13:45

@Cpl1586407

Lol as if anyone on this board is going to say "oh yes, me, I describe myself as cis"
Anyone is free to post, and a few people have declared themselves cisgender. If that's how you identify by all means say so, and it'd be good if you could explain what you mean by it and why it matters to you. And if you've got any evidence that many people in the general population do identify as cisgender then you're welcome to present it.
Cpl1586407 · 18/02/2021 13:38

Lol as if anyone on this board is going to say "oh yes, me, I describe myself as cis"

Ninkanink · 18/02/2021 13:36

Yeah, that’s not being ‘agender’ - that’s just being a normal person, like all the rest of us barring the most ridiculous caricatures, who is who he or she is and doesn’t actually fit in a box called ‘masculine traits’ or ‘feminine traits.’

Justhadathought · 18/02/2021 13:33

I am agender, meaning I identify with masculine and feminine stereotypes

Aren't we all, though? Who conforms to every gendered expectation of their sex?

Justhadathought · 18/02/2021 13:31

Umm I guess I do in the sense that I identify as the sex/gender I was born with. But I wouldn't use the term

Of course sex and gender are not the exact same thing.

Can i ask you In what ways would you say you 'identify as' your sex?

And in what ways do you' identify as' your gender? ( I'm assuming that you mean female?)

What, in your mind, would you say is the difference between simply 'being' and 'identifying as' a woman.

Wishitsnows · 18/02/2021 13:25

I think using the word cis is very offensive.

peanutbutty · 18/02/2021 13:22

Here is someone explaining much better than I could some reasons why people object to using or being described as "cis" - it ultimately leads to sex-based rights being un-enforceable (and perhaps that's the point of it).
notthenewsinbriefs.wordpress.com/2020/07/16/objections-to-cis/

In addition, if "all" cis means is identifying with the gender (i.e. stereotypes) that are traditionally imposed on your sex, then it's still a no from me.

You're asking if I identify into my own oppression, as if I could choose otherwise? Or maybe I'm just naturally predisposed to being oppressed? How many women identify with gender stereotypes really?

It's a meaningless term designed to make women feel they have a duty to "be kind" and cede space/ rights/ autonomy to those special few who boldly "break out" of the gender system, never mind the fact they do so by forcing everyone else to sit in a box that says "I'm okay with being oppressed".

Wrongsideofhistorymyarse · 18/02/2021 13:11

I'm a woman and don't have a gender identity. I'm not and never have been 'cis'.

ErrolTheDragon · 18/02/2021 13:11

I think we can make analogies with theism.
Many people nowadays are atheists - consciously rejecting the idea of god. They know that others are theists of various types and will often debate the subject. Some are antitheists who see belief in god(s) as actively harmful.

But most are apatheists - they just don't give a shit about it.

I'd suggest many MN feminists are akin to the first group (agender or anti-genderists), but the general population is more the second - completely apathetic about the concept of 'gender identity'.

Cattenberg · 18/02/2021 13:03

I don’t identify as cisgender.

I am female, and I conform to some gender stereotypes, but not all of them.

sanluca · 18/02/2021 12:57

I have no idea when someone is what gender. As far as I can tell, you can claim whatever you want. So I claim agender. On the plus side then people can't start dismissing me as a cis woman, they have to take me seriously as otherwise their own claims fall apart. It stops them using cis as 'sit down and shut up'

LucilleTheVampireBat · 18/02/2021 12:56

I don't "identify" as anything, I just am. That's how I feel anyway.

I reject the concept of gender. To me, gender is the way to put people into boxes and then keep them there. I admit to not being well versed in this so i'm not wording it well but, again this is just how I feel, i'm a woman because I am an adult female. I like pink and glitter because that's my personality. I also like climbing and football because that's my personality.

Probably makes no sense!

CIS to me is an unnecessary addition to the word woman. Woman is enough, thanks.

hanahsaunt · 18/02/2021 12:54

I do have one friend who used cis terminology on a FB post and wasn't particularly surprised but she is quite out there in terms of the people I know. On the other hand, I wrote a very stern letter to the BBC about the use of cis-women on Front Row noting that cis was superfluous and that we are women, pure and simple.

BigWoollyJumpers · 18/02/2021 12:53

@sanluca

I am agender, meaning I identify with masculine and feminine stereotypes. This makes me non cis and as cis&trans is binary, if I am not cis, I have to be transgender. So I am a transgender woman (woman as in sex class) but not a transwoman as I am not male and also not a transman as I don't identify as a man.

But say online I am a transgender woman but not a transwoman I get flamed and accussed of appropriating transwomens struggles.
You really could not make this up....

I would suggest most people are agender then. I am a woman, heterosexual, but I don't wear make-up or dresses and have no interest in fashion or shopping, so I don't conform to female stereotype. But stereotypes are bollocks anyway, as very few people are stereotypical. My husband is very emotional, does that make him agenda, of course it doesn't, but that isn't stereotypical male either.
sanluca · 18/02/2021 12:47

I am agender, meaning I identify with masculine and feminine stereotypes. This makes me non cis and as cis&trans is binary, if I am not cis, I have to be transgender. So I am a transgender woman (woman as in sex class) but not a transwoman as I am not male and also not a transman as I don't identify as a man.

But say online I am a transgender woman but not a transwoman I get flamed and accussed of appropriating transwomens struggles.
You really could not make this up....

rogueantimatter · 18/02/2021 12:37

No. I don't identify as a cis woman. Especially if cis is meant to imply privilege.