Positive Birth Company

I'm all for inclusive language, but it's incredibly one-sided.
We are supposed to accept that women can have penises but can't say that men can have breasts? They do!
How do they refer to the fathers? "Ejaculators" or similar, I suppose?

OP I hope you get somewhere with your refund, and supply all the screenshots of how badly their social media team treated you.

Milli Hill tweeted her support for Hibo Wardere earlier. She’s definitely a good egg!

Positive Birth Company is a terrible name. You can't sell or buy a positive experience of birth. You can sell affirmations, but what will they do for you when you can't have your planned home birth and have to go to hospital where the midwives speak to you like a badly behaved simpleton and all you have left of your plans is a lavender pillow? (Can you tell I had two Negative Births despite all my best efforts?)

Thanks for clarifying which it is.

Thanks for starting the thread OP.

I’m feeling quite cheered that I gave my money this time around to the PBM by Milli Hill! I used the PBC last time I was pregnant and fancied a change.

They should be called the Negative Birth Company!

So, someone with a pair of functioning breasts gives birth to a baby, which they intend to breastfeed with said breasts, so that the baby can enjoy the benefits of breast milk - but only if nobody mentions the word "breast"!

I would hope instead that such a person would receive the psychological care that they need, to help them take the opportunity to come to terms with themselves.

I think the comments show that most women don’t want it even thought they are deleted. The Instagram had a lot of women who posted very reasonable comments being told to educate themselves. They will and then they will find out the full extent of it.

No one would object to using the language in conversation with someone who was trans but changing it for everyone)which they have done) is not popular.

There was another awful phrase on that Instagram account ‘the birth industry’. Birth absolute should not be an industry women should be able to access women cantered support on the NHS. The only reason they are buying birth packs and hiring doulas is because they are not getting that and often get lectured on what to do instead. These doulas and hypnobirthing people are going to lose so much business when they start lecturing women.

I struggle with the fact that this is one area of inclusivity that has been bought into whole sale when outcomes for black mothers are so poor and there is virtually nothing out there for disabled mums.

Currently using their hynobirthing pack but don't follow their FB page so just had a look.

I especially enjoyed a comment telling people that cancer and sexual abuse survivors want these inclusive terms as much as the trans community so any push back is damaging ALL women. Strange as the female cancer experiences me and my family have had made me pretty aware of my biology and the wonder of it. Urgh.

The details about their postpartum pack shows they clearly know it’s mother’s who breastfeed. They are paying lip service to trans inclusivity.

They, like all of us, are stuck between a rock and a hard place. Either they show they are ‘inclusive’ or they face getting abuse. I’m not sure what the answer is.

Sorry - meant to say: .. as my nipples had toughened up after BF baby number one.

I'm really sorry that you have had such a downright negative start to your time as a mother, particularly wrt BREAST feeding. It's been what feels a lifetime since I breastfed my DC, but believe me, I am incandescent with rage about what you describe above, and in your position would absolutely not hesitate to write a very strongly worded email detailing my reactions to the language they use and demanding a refund. I sincerely hope that other women who do the same.
I wish you many sisterly good wishes with the birth of your baby, and with breastfeeding. Once you've got it established, it's lovely.
PS - one tip: nobody ever told me that BF can bloody hurt your nipples at first. A midwife recommended Lansinoh, which you can easily buy online now, and I never looked back. I only needed it for a few days, and didn't need it for my next two babies as my nipples. Good luck 😃

I'm in awe of Milli Hill. She is absolutely steadfast in maintaining woman-centred language and shows no signs of caving in. She is able to get away with it because she is such a big, influential name in the birth world. Everyone else is falling all over themselves to be "kind" and "inclusive". I've noticed on Instagram that things have actually got worse since last week and the announcement of the BSUH guidelines- so many new pronouns and references to birthing parents in people's content!

That PBC Instagram post referenced below is telling. It's basically tons of women explaining why they find this new "inclusive" language problematic/triggering, while a whole bunch of woke doulas/hypnobirthing teachers/professional birthy type people tell them why they're wrong and / or a bunch of TERFs. Anyone who is trying to make money in the birth world is falling into line, yet their actual clientele are telling them that they don't like this change. Likely the majority of these birth professionals have never had a trans client, not are they likely to any time soon, so there is obviously no commercial reason for this. It's about being in the woke club or possibly feeling coerced into it so they don't get called out.

It is AWFUL in the birth world at the moment. It feels as though the groups/orgs that are meant to assist women grappling with misogynistic aspects of the maternity system are so steeped in this ideology that they are themselves anti-woman. There was a 'lively' discussion on the Birthrights FB page last week on the BSUH policies, which also resulted in lots of deletion and calling women abusive/hateful. One doula, who apparently assists BR with some of their work, confirmed that it's bigoted for women who want female HCPs to refuse care from TW on that basis.

Woman-centred doulas and midwives are walking away because the climate is so toxic. The bullying is off the scale.

Also wanted to reiterate that it's the Positive Birth Company who do the courses/hypnobirthing packs and don't know what a woman is. I'm actually in a couple of birth groups who won't allow any endorsement of them because they only allow positive birth stories on their page/group. Women who have experienced disappointment or trauma in birthing have had their posts removed.

The Positive Birth Movement is the one founded by Milli Hill, who has steadfastly maintained female-centric language and copped so much bullying over the last few months. I think she also criticised Mermaids at one point? She's the author of The Positive Birth Book and Give Birth Like a Feminist (both excellent) and has a new book coming out for girls about periods.

OP, I'm really sorry you've been treated so shabbily by a company that is supposed to support women, them refusing to refund you is shocking!

I've had two c-sections and found Maggie Howell's caesarean-hypnobirthing script really good when I was a bit nervous beforehand, it's on Apple.

According to the Lionel shriver article in the Sunday times, there were only two transmen who gave birth up to 2017. Being generous, I'd say we are now up to fewer than 10.

Why are we all changing language for this tiny number of people who are so dysphoric that we can't even name body parts but who have no issue with conceiving, carrying and giving birth to a baby?

There are so many more minority groups of women whose needs during pregnancy and childbirth have been entirely overlooked.

I was shocked recently when I did some research for a younger relative who is having a baby. I had told her all about how I’d had a doula at my last birth and how fantastic it was. I found loads of these allegedly ‘inclusive’ doulas on their Instagram accounts and websites embracing this new language. One charming doula actually called women ‘cunts’ for daring to hold the belief that only women can give birth and believing that people’s genitalia is a bit of a clue as to whether they’re a man or woman. How dare we have such T*fy ideas!

I totally support any trans man who wants someone who is ‘on-board’ with their particular beliefs attending their births. If using the wrong pronoun would ruin their birth experience, then employ someone who is well-practiced in attending such births and won’t make any awkward slips of the tongue. But don’t expect everyone else to totally strip away all female words around the birth process to accommodate your own beliefs.

I imagine there are many midwives or doulas who would politely decline attending a birth where they would have to ignore the evidence before their own eyes and not be allowed to use ‘contentious’ words like woman, mother, breasts, vagina etc... I hope their voices are not drowned out. Or that they routinely get called ‘cunts’ by others in their profession.

And the ANGER these people feel towards the ‘bigots’ who dare to not totally convert to this new way of thinking. One American doula very earnestly described how this bizarre idea that there are 2 sexes, was ‘invented’ by white, male scientists in the 19th Century?!! WTAF!

I personally find it a bit sad to see a newly-born baby being laid onto the ‘chest’ of a trans man that has had a perfectly healthy pair of breasts removed (although very happy that a healthy baby has been born and that the trans man is happy) Am I allowed to express this on MN? (I’ll soon find out no doubt!)

I find it all so very frustrating and utterly baffling.

Which one has written the book to help people have a positive experience of birth? And also do online hypnobirthing classes?

The company or the movement? I was planning on doing the online course as pregnant with my first baby.

That's vile. I really hope you get your money back. I wonder if there is an ombudsmen for this sort of thing? A refund is the very least they could do. Or maybe get them on false advertising? I don't know, I just hate this crap so much but more so when it involves money or products.

I mean if you're selling menstrual cups you want to hope that the only people who are buying them are women or else I'd be worried about the burden on the MHS for trips to ER for their removal.

Can I ask how much you paid OP? Don't say if you don't want to. I just thought it could be quite funny to go through the small claims court if they refused to refund you. Could make a nice story in The Natural Parent Magazine or Everyday Birth Magazine

It is Siobhan Miller.

How did you pay for the course, can yiu get your bank/credit card company to do a chargeback for a service not provided?

WeeTorag an interesting insta post. There are many many women saying no, just no.