Page 5 | Staniland Question is so good. Can we think of others?

aliasundercover · 2021-02-17T11:10:20+00:00

The Staniland question: *Do you believe that male-sexed people have the right to undress and shower in a communal changing room with teenage girls?* is so clever. The fact that so many people refuse to engage with it - let alone answer it - means it's a quick, powerful, way of showing how ridiculous the TWAW position is. Can we think of any others that would be as effective? Maybe we could come up with 5 or so really sharp questions that TRAs could refuse to answer. My first thoughts are something along the lines of: *Why is it racist to identify as another race but stunning and brave to identify as another sex?* I'm sure somebody can word that better. So any suggestions? The questions need to be short and clear.

Mumofgirlswholiketoplaywithmud · 18/02/2021 23:51

Ooops posted too late. Why are stonewall's definitions so wooly??!

Mumofgirlswholiketoplaywithmud · 18/02/2021 23:49

(is it synonymous with crossdresser?)

334bu · 18/02/2021 23:48

Should women speakers addressing a Women's March audience be told not to talk about female health matters, because some people who identify as women don't have female bodies?

DdraigGoch · 18/02/2021 23:47

@titchy

If TWAW why are there no examples of any getting pregnant?

Monty Python exposed the absurdity of the concept decades ago.

Mumofgirlswholiketoplaywithmud · 18/02/2021 23:44

Why has stonewall dropped the term "transvestite"?

DdraigGoch · 18/02/2021 23:35

I think anyone who exposed their genitals to a 4 year old in public toilets is a concern to be honest.
@jj1968 what if that person identified as a five year old? Is it OK then?

NotBadConsidering · 18/02/2021 23:32

And another question:

Why should legislation around women’s rights be changed when trans people, trans activists, and trans organisations like Stonewall can’t even agree amongst themselves about what they’re defining and trying to achieve?

NotBadConsidering · 18/02/2021 23:22

If Stonewall describes trans as this on their website right at this very moment:

www.stonewall.org.uk/help-advice/faqs-and-glossary/glossary-terms#t

An umbrella term to describe people whose gender is not the same as, or does not sit comfortably with, the sex they were assigned at birth.
Trans people may describe themselves using one or more of a wide variety of terms, including (but not limited to) transgender, transsexual, gender-queer (GQ), gender-fluid, non-binary, gender-variant, crossdresser, genderless, agender, nongender, third gender, bi-gender, trans man, trans woman,trans masculine, trans feminine and neutrois.

...then what do we call someone who claims crossdressing and umbrella was only mentioned by Stonewall “several years ago”?

Mumofgirlswholiketoplaywithmud · 18/02/2021 23:15

If a cross-dresser (who we've established is different to a trans-woman) wants to access a female only space is it transphobic to refuse them?

jj1968 · 18/02/2021 23:10

@Nameitychangity

Even if someone was medically transitioned I'm reasonably sure a doctor taking more than a cursory glance would be able to tell. A constructed 'vagina' isn't really like a vagina, and a constructed 'penis' is NOTHING like a real penis. And it matters a great deal if a patient is unconscious in A&E (given that they are unconscious and unable to impart this vital piece of information) and could be suffering from any number of specific disorders or diseases based on their sex surely?

Somewhat thankfully doctors do not have the luxury of assuming they can always tell, or of pretending intersex people don't exist, or in this case assuming genital deformities/abnormalities/injuries do not exist. Thankfully sex is not that important in most medical situations although they could obviously do a scan if it was and there was any ambiguity - they still might not get a clear answer in the case of someone who was intersex though.

Nameitychangity · 18/02/2021 22:50

Even if someone was medically transitioned I'm reasonably sure a doctor taking more than a cursory glance would be able to tell. A constructed 'vagina' isn't really like a vagina, and a constructed 'penis' is NOTHING like a real penis. And it matters a great deal if a patient is unconscious in A&E (given that they are unconscious and unable to impart this vital piece of information) and could be suffering from any number of specific disorders or diseases based on their sex surely?

NotBadConsidering · 18/02/2021 22:37

a) Can a child at 12 make an informed decision about having sex at the present time?

b) can a child at 12 make an informed decision about having sex 10 years into their future?

jj1968 · 18/02/2021 22:34

@ListeningQuietly

A&E doctor presented with unconscious patient whose clothes have been removed

Are they male
Are they female
Are they something else

How would the medic decide ?

That's easy, primary and secondary sex characteristics so they might get it wrong is someone was fully medically transitioned but it's unlikely to matter too much in an initial examination in A&E.

Mumofgirlswholiketoplaywithmud · 18/02/2021 22:33

If Elliott Page commited a crime should he be forced to go to a male prison?

Mumofgirlswholiketoplaywithmud · 18/02/2021 22:32

Thank you JJ. Follow up question- if a transvestite wants to use a woman's bathroom should they? (They're not a transwomen by definition?)

jj1968 · 18/02/2021 22:17

@Mumofgirlswholiketoplaywithmud

I have a question for anyone who knows about how these things work: when were crossdressers and transvestites included under the trans umbrella? And by whom? I consider them to be different to eg. Blaire white, but us that wrong for me to see a difference?

Also - how would a female "cross dress" as s male?

This is a very common misconception. The term 'trans umbrella' was used by Stonewall several years ago to include all those who may face discrimination or hostility due to being gender variant or non-conforming in some way. It includes cross dressers as well as trans men, non binary people and lots of other different expressions of gender. It has never meant that everyone in this group is a trans women or that everyone in this group is seeking to access women's spaces and it is prefectly acceptable and quite normal to recognise the differences between the groups that fall under this heading.

As to your last question, maybe google drag kings.

Darcinian · 18/02/2021 22:17

Should gender clinics be expected to track medium and long term outcomes for their patients?

NoraEphronsNeck · 18/02/2021 22:17

@Barracker

Part 1: Should 'transwomen' be allowed to distinguish themselves from members of the male sex, or should they be forced to share space unwillingly?

Part 2: Should women be allowed to?

That's a very good question.

Mumofgirlswholiketoplaywithmud · 18/02/2021 22:01

I have a question for anyone who knows about how these things work: when were crossdressers and transvestites included under the trans umbrella? And by whom? I consider them to be different to eg. Blaire white, but us that wrong for me to see a difference?

Also - how would a female "cross dress" as s male?

Flapjak · 18/02/2021 21:26

How does a female brain differ from a male brain from early childhood?

If there is such a thing as gender identity, is it present from birth, eay childhood, adolescence?

If one is trans, have they always been trans but in denial?

Is it possible to be born with a male brain but develop a female brain during middle age?

How does a man know he is woman, rather than just a man that thinks he is a woman ? Given that he has no physical attributes or external validation to confirm this

ListeningQuietly · 18/02/2021 21:14

A&E doctor presented with unconscious patient whose clothes have been removed

Are they male
Are they female
Are they something else

How would the medic decide ?

CranberriesChoccyAgain · 18/02/2021 20:57

@Barracker

"What are the differences between men and women?"

Mainly income, unpaid labour, and disparity of power. Guess they're not self-identifying into those bits eh?

DearFrutti · 18/02/2021 20:34

@malloo

Oh yes, I do love asking Can any woman be a transwoman? or Can I be a transwoman?

No because... erm... and they just can't say the word man

malloo · 18/02/2021 20:26

DearFrutti
No, they are not. Because that's not how logic works. Set A being a subset of set B does not imply that set B is also a subset of set A.
Just change the words, eg
If all cats are mammals then are all mammals cats?
If all Italians are **European then are all Europeans Italian?

Apologies if someone has already pointed this out.

Yes I agree, you're right, I guess it's the second part of my question that's more relevant "Can any woman be a transwoman? If not, why not?" I was thinking in terms of Venn diagrams and how different types of the same thing sometimes intersect but other categories never do. Not very coherent though

Menual · 18/02/2021 20:19

If Eminem decided to change his race to black would it be racist to say he's not black?