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Original poster

Staniland Question is so good. Can we think of others?

511 replies

aliasundercover · 17/02/2021 11:10

The Staniland question:
Do you believe that male-sexed people have the right to undress and shower in a communal changing room with teenage girls?
is so clever. The fact that so many people refuse to engage with it - let alone answer it - means it's a quick, powerful, way of showing how ridiculous the TWAW position is.

Can we think of any others that would be as effective? Maybe we could come up with 5 or so really sharp questions that TRAs could refuse to answer. My first thoughts are something along the lines of:
Why is it racist to identify as another race but stunning and brave to identify as another sex?
I'm sure somebody can word that better.

So any suggestions? The questions need to be short and clear.

OP posts:
Ereshkigalangcleg · 19/02/2021 10:59

Laughable if it weren’t so dangerous.

Yes, exactly.

Worrysaboutalot · 19/02/2021 10:37

I have decided that rather than try and change peoples minds who have decided, they can't and won't see the lack of knowledge or logic in their answers.

I will be acknowledging the massive elephant in the room. We all already know, even those denying that truth and suggesting false comparisons.

So I will be using statements instead.

"Transwomen are treated like the men, we know they are. If they truly were women, they would be ignored."

OR

"As men dismantle women's rights, the liberals ask "How do we know who is a woman?"
We all know the answer, we always did"

Svrider · 19/02/2021 09:32

In what way would a man have any idea what it is to be a woman??
What makes him feel that his feelings are a woman's feelings?

Wrongsideofhistorymyarse · 19/02/2021 09:30

@RoyalCorgi

The demand that everywhere that provides single sex spaces should immediately construct a third space and that this must not impact on the women's space in any possible way virtually defies the laws of physics. It's highly unlikely that this could realistically even be achieved in many buildings let alone whether the public could be persuaded to support it.

I think you're confusing us with someone who gives a fuck. It isn't women's problem to solve. We have the right to say no to having men in our spaces, both for privacy and for safety. It doesn't matter how much you squeal about it or call us Terfs or yammer on about how unsafe it is to change around men (guess what - we know!) you still don't get to invade women's spaces. As Winesalot said yesterday:

The answer is still No!

I agree with this post.
334bu · 19/02/2021 09:16

Question:

Should parents be informed that the person supervising their daughters changing and showering after PE is a male bodied person who identifies as a woman?

Mumofgirlswholiketoplaywithmud · 19/02/2021 08:22

Has Martina Big changed race? Many would (rightly) say no and that it is offensive to say so despite having hundreds of surgical procedures. www.martina-big.com/

Has Rodrigo Alves changed sex?
metro.co.uk/tag/rodrigo-alves/
Should women be kicked out of political parties for stating that they do not believe that Rodrigo has changed sex?

merrymouse · 19/02/2021 08:09

@Ereshkigalangcleg

Thankfully sex is not that important in most medical situations

This is laughable nonsense.

Laughable if it weren’t so dangerous.

I can’t decide whether the conclusion - that sex can’t be important because the doctor might be unaware of a rare medical disorder - is offensive or just worthy of pity.

Original poster
aliasundercover · 19/02/2021 07:59

Thankfully sex is not that important in most medical situations

This is laughable nonsense.

To be fair you could write that under pretty much any of their contributions. (I didn’t even have to check to see who wrote the original post).

OP posts:
Mumofgirlswholiketoplaywithmud · 19/02/2021 07:51

Is Ja Du Filipino? www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/man-transracial-white-florida-filipino-rachel-dolezal-philippines-ja-du-adam-a8053731.html%3famp

After the independent article Is Du now states that that they are a trans woman is Ja Du now a woman? www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/858043001

Why is one experience considered appropriation, but the other argued to be legally unchallengeable?

Should Ja Du be allowed on an all woman shortlist? Are women allowed to object to this?

oldwomanwhoruns · 19/02/2021 07:41

Multiple choice questions. Please answer (a) or (b), show your working and give reasons for your answers.

Q1. If a white man dresses up as a black man, with black face and cartoon 'minstrel' make-up, is he being:
a) brave
b) insulting to black people

Q2. If a man dresses up as a woman (in a dress, ie a cartoon 'woman'), is he being:
a) brave
b) insulting to women

Q3. If you cannot see the similarity between Q1 and Q2, please state your IQ below ( a single digit box is provided for your answer)

Mumofgirlswholiketoplaywithmud · 19/02/2021 07:36

Can a non-binary person AMAB ask to use a female-only space or ask to be on a female-only shortlist? If woman say no, is that transphobia by stonewall's definition?

If women say no to a cross-dresser using a female-only space or a female only shortlist is that transphobia? (A pp knowledgeable in this area up the thread stated that cross-dressers were not the same as trans-woman- but what if they want to access women's only spaces? Can women say no?)

DdraigGoch · 19/02/2021 06:35

[quote jj1968]This is quite interesting and relevent. The majority of people think it's okay for someone to use the toilets of the opposite sex if they really need to go:

The majority (56%) believe it is acceptable for a woman who badly needs to urinate and might otherwise wet themselves to use the men’s toilets. Only 29% disagree. The figures are almost the same if the situation were reversed and a man needed to go in the women’s toilets – 52% think this would be ok and 32% do not. In both scenarios, men and women are united in their views.

yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2018/03/20/potty-parity-would-it-be-fairer-make-womens-toilet[/quote]
That article deals with one of your earlier points about who should lose space to construct "third space" facilities. You said that men would object to losing square footage. We wouldn't. Anyone who has been to any kind of theatre or concert knows that Ladies' toilets are usually woefully under provisioned in relation to need whereas there aren't capacity problems in the Gent's. Urinals are very efficient and can achieve a very fast throughput of people. Women's anatomy does not lend itself to such a fast turnover in the toilets.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 19/02/2021 02:37

Thankfully sex is not that important in most medical situations

This is laughable nonsense.

NotBadConsidering · 19/02/2021 02:18

@wellthatsunusual

Thankfully sex is not that important in most medical situations I'd say sex is important in all medical situations. Seeing as how heart attacks can present differently in men and women, and a man presenting with abdominal pain couldn't possibly be having an ectopic pregnancy, to name just two.
I have actually challenged someone in real life with this and raised concerns about triage in emergency departments recorded a female person as male. If a female presents with right iliac fossa pain they have an ectopic pregnancy until proven otherwise, and should be triaged appropriately and have a beta HCG checked ASAP. A male does not need this. There is a risk a female who is triaged as “male” could be put at risk with delayed investigation and treatment. This has happened but was averted because someone was onto it because they knew the patient as a frequent presenter.
Hotdrop1 · 19/02/2021 01:45

Couldn't self identifying as the opposite gender be viewed as gender appropriation? If so, why is it supported whereas cultural appropriation is condemned? Both involve adopting aspects of another person's life without sharing their lived experience.

jj1968 · 19/02/2021 01:11

One thing that's highly likely is that the reason more women die of heart attacks is a function of gender not sex which is why it's so important not to overstate physical differences between the sexes to explain medical disparities - because it could be letting sexist assumptions and attitudes within healthcare provision off the hook.

jj1968 · 19/02/2021 01:04

@334bu

Still seems to be considerable disparity in quality of care. Moral if the story seems to be if you want to survive a heart attack be a man
Indeed, and one of the reasons for that may be, as BHF point out, an incorrect assumption that men and women present with different symptoms. NICE guidelines state that men and women presenting with possible heart failure symptoms should be treated in the same way.
334bu · 19/02/2021 00:42

Still seems to be considerable disparity in quality of care. Moral if the story seems to be if you want to survive a heart attack be a man

334bu · 19/02/2021 00:39

www.bhf.org.uk/informationsupport/heart-matters-magazine/medical/women-and-heart-disease

Sorry for individual posts. Can't seem to work out clipboard storage on this phone. Where is a nine year old when you need them?

jj1968 · 19/02/2021 00:38

[quote 334bu]www.wspa.com/news/ask-the-expert/how-heart-attack-symptoms-differ-in-men-and-women/[/quote]
Well as I said new research suggests that may not be true, or at least much less significant than once thought, and so doctors would be wise not to make assumptions. But in emergency care with an unconscious patient their sex is unlikely to be very important and if it might be such as in the case of suspected pregnancy that is pretty easy to establish.

Sidesaladofchips · 19/02/2021 00:21

Some days I don't feel very "womanly", am I a man?

Why is cultural appropriation (Adele wearing her hair in bantu knots) deemed unacceptable but gender appropriation (Eddie Izzard wearing lipstick and in "girl mode") deemed acceptable and brave?

jj1968 · 19/02/2021 00:20

@wellthatsunusual

Thankfully sex is not that important in most medical situations I'd say sex is important in all medical situations. Seeing as how heart attacks can present differently in men and women, and a man presenting with abdominal pain couldn't possibly be having an ectopic pregnancy, to name just two.
Presumably if the patient can describe symptoms then they are conscious and the doctor could ask them.

And it's by no means certain that heart attack symptoms differ in women and men, more recent research suggests perhaps not: www.bhf.org.uk/what-we-do/news-from-the-bhf/news-archive/2019/august/no-difference-in-key-heart-attack-symptoms-between-men-and-women

wellthatsunusual · 18/02/2021 23:54

Thankfully sex is not that important in most medical situations I'd say sex is important in all medical situations. Seeing as how heart attacks can present differently in men and women, and a man presenting with abdominal pain couldn't possibly be having an ectopic pregnancy, to name just two.