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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Staniland Question is so good. Can we think of others?

511 replies

aliasundercover · 17/02/2021 11:10

The Staniland question:
Do you believe that male-sexed people have the right to undress and shower in a communal changing room with teenage girls?
is so clever. The fact that so many people refuse to engage with it - let alone answer it - means it's a quick, powerful, way of showing how ridiculous the TWAW position is.

Can we think of any others that would be as effective? Maybe we could come up with 5 or so really sharp questions that TRAs could refuse to answer. My first thoughts are something along the lines of:
Why is it racist to identify as another race but stunning and brave to identify as another sex?
I'm sure somebody can word that better.

So any suggestions? The questions need to be short and clear.

OP posts:
Darcinian · 17/02/2021 20:25

@jj1968

Should shop assistants, security guards and changing room attendants be required to establish what genitals people had at birth before they can be permitted access to toilets and changing rooms?

And how would they do this?

I like this game.

We have had sex segregated facilities and services for years without needing knicker inspectors at the doors. We can continue exactly as we are.

If you really genuinely look and move like a woman then nobody will notice so long as you keep the act up all the time you are in there so that would be a non-issue.

Your skirt-lifting plan would only now be required at the door if males change behaviour and start trying to go into the ladies loads by insisting that they are women. Even then you would simply challenge the men and check their driving licence or passport. Oooh, except if they had somehow been allowed to show the opposite sex on their document. Then that would be awkward, yes, but only if the male in question is trying to bulldoze his way into a space he knows he isn't allowed to be. Generally males don't do that. It's a social contract people are used to following.

wellthatsunusual · 17/02/2021 20:20

JJ is perhaps illustrating the best question of all. Which is, why will TRAs not answer very straightforward questions that are put to them.

PurpleWh1teGreen · 17/02/2021 20:19

Why should women always stand aside for men?

Actually no, why do men think females should stand aside for them.

MerryDecembermas · 17/02/2021 20:11

People who are diagnosed with eating disorders often say they feel grossly overweight. Why is weight loss surgery not offered as a treatment for those feelings?

Darcinian · 17/02/2021 20:10

@jj1968

Should a masculine appearing woman have to prove what sex she was born before she can enter women's toilets and changing rooms?
Masculine appearing women use women's toilets and changing rooms all the time and have done for years.

Most women do not look like Kim Kardashian or Taylor Swift.

A lot of women have some combination of being flat-chested, barrel-shaped, wear clothes that could be men's like baggy jeans and a fleece, don't wear make up, have short hair, don't always smile sweetly, are tall for a woman, have a hairy face, have rough skin, have massive hands.

If a woman is so masculine looking that other women might mistake her for a man she will usually go out of her way to make the other women feel comfortable by doing something to signify that she is female. This is normal already.

In the highly unlikely situation that someone really really thought she was a bloke she could show her driving licence or other id that she would no doubt be carrying as this kind of thing would happen a lot. Except it doesn't anywhere today.

No changes required to the current system.

Darcinian · 17/02/2021 20:01

@jj1968

Should a 10 year old trans girl, who in every way looks like a girl, be forced to use spaces where men have their penis exposed?
If a ten year old boy wants to use a female-only facility should his adults let him or say no and explain that it wouldn't be fair to all the girls?

Then you find out why he wants to go in the female facility and see how you can solve his problem without impinging on a group of women and girls.

Xpectations · 17/02/2021 19:59

@PurpleWh1teGreen

DS1 would shoot back: No. Nor would I choose a post menopausal woman, a woman born female but without a womb or an infertile woman, like the one who needs a surrogate - is she not a woman for needing a surrogate?

Fair enough Labobo, but would a TW even be on the shortlist?
A post menopausal woman could still be a option in some circumstances, a Transwoman never could.

I would just reframe the question as “should a couple needing egg donation/surrogacy approach a fertile woman or a fertile transwoman?” to avoid the fertility sleight-of-hand.
RedDeerRunning · 17/02/2021 19:48

'what is a woman?'

Answers must avoid any circular definition, such as 'a woman is someone who identities as a woman'...

Hold the interlocutor to a tangible definition. .

jj1968 · 17/02/2021 19:44

(There is a 13% chance of a man dying if he has a blood transfusion from a woman who has been pregnant).

No there isn't. One study, which is somewhat controversial, has found that men have a 13% higher chance of dying, which is very different to 13% of them will die. You can read about it here: www.statnews.com/2017/10/17/blood-transfusions-pregnant-women/

Bluesername · 17/02/2021 19:31

How do you know you 'feel like a woman' when you've never been female?

PurpleWh1teGreen · 17/02/2021 19:31

DS1 would shoot back: No. Nor would I choose a post menopausal woman, a woman born female but without a womb or an infertile woman, like the one who needs a surrogate - is she not a woman for needing a surrogate?

Fair enough Labobo, but would a TW even be on the shortlist?
A post menopausal woman could still be a option in some circumstances, a Transwoman never could.

Bluesername · 17/02/2021 19:28

Why do TWs insist that humans are 'assigned' male or female at birth? How do you explain the fact that sex is determined at conception and fixed for life in the chromosomes?

No surgery, hormones or clothing alters the fact that men have a Y chromosome, women do not.

Why would removing body parts alter anyone's sex? If you castrate a bull has it become female?

Darcinian · 17/02/2021 19:25

Should a male prisoner be allowed to demand that his searches are conducted by a female officer?

ifIwerenotanandroid · 17/02/2021 19:23

@RoyalCorgi

The academic lawyer Alessandra Asteriti had a good question on Twitter. (She has now been banned, of course, even though she was always polite and reasonable.)

This is it:

If you see an eight-year old girl going into a public toilet, and shortly afterwards you see a man go into the same toilet, do you:

a) go in after them to make sure the girl is safe
b) assume that the man identifies as female and do nothing?

IIRC, every single response was (a).
Scrapper142 · 17/02/2021 19:17

I have three go to questions, which I think have been mentioned in one form or another.

1.50/50 men/transwomen in parliament a sign of progress?

  1. While giving evidence against a man who raped the witness but identifies as a women, should the witness be compelled to refer to the perpetrator as 'she'. If she refuses should this be considered a crime, contempt of court or a reason to reduce any sentence.
  1. If you believe we can be born in the wrong body I assume you believe in some sort of soul, which must be gendered. This essence of being would need to exist out side of the material world and human experience and may only come into being with you, with no prior experience. So what would make one female and another male?
Darcinian · 17/02/2021 19:12

I would like to see every politician asked:

Do you believe there are two biological sexes: male and female

I like this question because it is a fact everybody knows from being a living human being.

Furthermore, the question has nothing to do with trans because trans is about gender not sex. So nobody should have any bother responding "yes, of course I do."

Thus it is illuminating if someone Nandys the question.

You don't have to know anything about trans issues at all to be utterly bemused if someone fails to answer "Yes."

The audience will be alerted to trans activism if the the interviewee starts talking about trans topics unbidden.

My auntie who never picks up a newspaper would prick up her ears at such fuckery on the morning TV chat show. She'd phone me to tell me to put the telly on.

WarriorN · 17/02/2021 19:12

Should the nhs use ons data from the 2021 census to work out how to spend money on women's health?

WarriorN · 17/02/2021 19:08

Should Transmen be housed in male prisons?

InvisibleDragon · 17/02/2021 19:06

Should a trans boy who has been securely assaulted by a male relative receive intimate care from a make or female healthcare worker?

WarriorN · 17/02/2021 19:05

[quote ListeningQuietly]This is a health charity that seems to get the messaging right
prostatecanceruk.org/prostate-information/are-you-at-risk/trans-women-and-prostate-cancer[/quote]

That's a good page.

Is there a correlating page around vaginal atrophy etc for trans men?

WarriorN · 17/02/2021 19:02

So if men are so dangerous, JJ, why would they be allowed into female spaces?

Did JJ answer this?

There's a staniland q for you.

I do agree with Mildredpuppy too.

Labobo · 17/02/2021 18:57

@PurpleWh1teGreen

If you wanted a surrogate to gestate a child, would you consider a Transwoman?
DS1 would shoot back: No. Nor would I choose a post menopausal woman, a woman born female but without a womb or an infertile woman, like the one who needs a surrogate - is she not a woman for needing a surrogate?
Dalyesque · 17/02/2021 18:55

Is it time to choose one of these for AIBU?

PurpleWh1teGreen · 17/02/2021 18:41

If you wanted a surrogate to gestate a child, would you consider a Transwoman?

Labobo · 17/02/2021 18:40

@Mermoose

My super-woke DS1 would say: That question isn't relevant because the trans movement is about people who have been born into the wrong sex. So they are women in men's bodies and therefore non-binary

I'd say first of all, he's incorrect in saying that the woke opinion is that a transwoman is non-binary.

But also, this just shows the relevance of the meaning of man and woman - if a woman can be born in a man's body, what does that mean? Why is it a man's body? Why is the person really a woman?

It's great that he's having these discussions with you though.

I wish I had asked this: 'But what does that mean to be a woman in a man's body? He went on about gender and I challenged it and said gender is dubious because it closes down the range of what a man or a woman can be. But then he gets emotional and starts asking why someone who is suicidal shouldn't be allowed puberty blockers. He has a few trans friends (who doesn't in their teens these days?) and he is very protective of them.