Trans campaigners want to abolish prisons - wonder why?

So no prisons. Where do they intend to place murderers, rapists and people reported for hate crimes?

Women aren't safe from male people anywhere anymore. Even on a forum like this. To want to abolish prisons without dealing with the spectrum of male entitlement that includes violence is naive and dangerous.

Looks like it. I remember when we used to laugh at the daft things they came out with...

jj1968

I think you will find that the introduction of the welfare state and NHS under the Attlee government was anything but communism/radical socialism. Attlee came from a middle class family, went to Oxford and was a barrister. Attlee favoured a mixed economy, something which carried on during the Wilson years.

Isn't this a bit in the vein of defund the police. Are we transporting everything from the US now?

my son was at a hardcore male cat B prison and he became friends with and helped a black Trans woman who was on his wing - he is intelligent and empathetic - he said half the wing left her alone and protected her, the other half were horrendous - not ok!

It is an issue for the men's prison service to ensure all men are safe within their prisons.

What about!!! We have male prison and female prisons. Why not a prison just for transgender people?! I would support that!

All prisons? Maybe some people are nervous about being sent to one...

I'm sorry but your just wrong.

Likewise.

Concepts of equality and human rights (including feminism) have their roots in the enlightenment, not militant communism, which is more recent and somehow never actually gets around to equality for people who aren’t male.

But sorry, I’m interrupting your attempt to derail and misrepresent.

DD23 has just come out of a 15 month prison sentence (‘explosives’ found to be fireworks - found ‘not guilty’ but kept locked up on remand due to Covid court backlogs - he’s half Turkish and had a Koran in his room and a history of psychosis - now he is released and recovered) - my son was at a hardcore male cat B prison and he became friends with and helped a black Trans woman who was on his wing - he is intelligent and empathetic - he said half the wing left her alone and protected her, the other half were horrendous - not ok!

Please let's try to keep on topic. I want to hear more about these glorious proposals about murderers and the rest no longer being in prison

There is zero need to get worried about this, trans identifying people will never succeed in abolishing prisons. They may however succeed in ensuring males can pretend to identify as women in order to transfer to women’s prisons, and this is why self id should be abolished.

It was enlightened liberals who fought against the Factory Act which restricted child labour to 12 hours a day based on the idea that the hidden hand of the market must never be touched by Governments. The idea of universal healthcare or a welfare state was unthinkable until communist ideas swept across Europe terrifying the ruling class into acting. Communism was a huge global movement which, whilst ultimately unsuccessful at the point of revolution, forced pretty much every state in the world into concessions to working class demands. The idea that these things were won by a bunch of enlightened liberals is rewriting history completely. They were won by the organised working class fighting for their own interests which included the collectivisation of resources to the benefit of all.

But also in Europe the legacy of militant communist organising are things like the NHS, the welfare state, the Equal Pay Act, universal education etc.

No, that is the legacy of enlightenment thinking. Militant communist organisations have derailed arguments for equality. People need to be able to listen to nuanced arguments, but they won’t do that if people like YOU jj misrepresent those arguments.

So Mermaid's aren't interested in abolishing prisons, as far as we know. They are merely partners in some research which found that some trans people in a focus group said they supported prison abolition.

Yes, Persistantwoman, the old phrase ‘give then enough ripe’ springs to mind. This could be that little bit of extra length we’ve been waiting for. It’ll never gain any political traction, as apart from a few in especially safe but fringe-y seats, what prospective MP could possibly see it as a winning campaign strategy? It’s a dead end. Any party that advocated for it would face electoral oblivion.

The more I think about this, the more I think they should crack on and spread the news widely. No more prison for murderers, sex offenders, gang members, extortionists, DV perpetrators, paedophiles or anyone.

Can't wait to see how the BBC cover this one

[quote merrymouse]Because history shows jj, that the promise of your first paragraph leads to the second, and women always lose.

www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-53220713[/quote]
History doesn't always show that, but I agree the Marxist/Leninist revolutionary movements of the last century failed with horrifying results. That's why I'm not a Marxist/Leninist.

But also in Europe the legacy of militant communist organising are things like the NHS, the welfare state, the Equal Pay Act, universal education etc. The legacy of Nazism and Fascism is just racism, abandoned concentration camps and misery. This reflects the different intentions of the two political currents.

[quote CuriousaboutSamphire]@jj1968 again, you don't seem to have a detailed grasp of what Davis actually campaigned for. If you think it was simply the abolition of prisons you haven't read below the headline. She is a far, far more complex agitator/campaignor than that.[/quote]
Handily she wrote a book about precisely this subject and which is available free online so people can read it and make up their own minds; www.feministes-radicales.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/Angela-Davis-Are_Prisons_Obsolete.pdf

Anyone simply calling for prison abolition has a few screws loose. I like to see people who are problematic for some other reason getting behind that just like I'm pleased if they become anti-vaxxers or start reporting that they were probed during an alien abduction.

Absolutely, the far left's end goal is that all wealth should be collectively held and used for the benefit of everyone and that oppression based on sex, race, disability, sexuality and gender should be eradicated, as should all forms of economic exploitation and war. In such circumstances it is believed the state would melt away or be dismantled as no longer necessary due to the creation of bottom up political structures based on consensus and mass participation.

And of course, we've already seen this happen in countries such as the USSR and China.

They are literally exactly the same, I don't understand why more people can't see it.Oh stupid wimmins, look, a prophet, unheard, not honoured in their own land!

Because history shows jj, that the promise of your first paragraph leads to the second, and women always lose.

www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-53220713