Q&A thread for New Posters

Good luck @WhatWouldPhyllisCraneDo

I feel it's a baffling comparison and have a sense your friend is confused, but keep us posted!

Hi Tini

That's a good question, because it feels like a nice compromise. You check your sex (M or F) and then you check your gender. But what is one's gender? I have no idea what mine would be. I have heard of the 180 genders, so may list them in a drop-down, but like the 27 Jennifer's, I'm pretty sure they all have their own personality

Hello, me again.

I really hope I don't offend with this. Would a gender critical feminist be more comfortable if official forms had fields for sex AND gender? Or is it the very idea of gender that they are critical of?

Thanks. I'll have a look.

Maybe this thread from Lipstick Alley (site primarily for Black women) would help. www.lipstickalley.com/threads/white-transwomen-appropriating-black-womens-struggles.4392328/page-2

Hmmm...the current bathroom bill has nothing to do with race. Ask her for specifics.

I'm not reading the message like that she says the US bathroom bill "did not end well for cis women of colour" I took that to mean the modern bathroom bill. Not that it was a a comparison to the 60s?
I'm obviously misunderstanding it.

Black women deserve the same sex-based protections as all women and are not hurt by sex-based protections.

...what your friend is saying that trans women are like Black women, meaning she's saying that somehow Black women aren't fully female. Which is a horrid (and stupid) thing to say.

Sounds exactly like she's using civil rights language from the 1960s. She's equating separate bathrooms for trans women as the same kind of thing as when Black women in the south had to have separate toilets from white women.

It's racist as fuck.

I've copied and pasted the relevant sentence in her message...

"The government has opened a consultation on toilet provision that seems to be moving towards bringing in an abhorrent "bathroom bill" type deal like they bright in in some states in America.... it did not end well for trans or gender non conforming people or cis women of colour....."

How are "cis women of colour" affected by sex separated bathrooms? Or have I misunderstood the "bathroom bill"?

I don't think she means separate bathrooms for black people. She means black women are negatively affected by separating toilets by sex. But I'm not sure how

American here- yes, separate bathrooms (toilets) for Black people were a thing in the American South and one of the issues of civil rights for Black people in America.

That is a completely separate issue (with a 60 year difference) than the issue your friend is noting. Black woman, white women, Native women, Asian women are at current risk of losing sex-based spaces.

Your friend is conflating African-American civil rights with men wanting access to women's spaces. It's racist as fuck, but I'd bet $100000 your friend would be aghast at being called racist...she's completely clueless, so start there.

I'm not "new" here, but certainly less educated than a lot of you lovely posters. So I'm hoping you can help.

My friend recently messaged me about an "abhorrent US style bathroom bill" urging me to use the letter template she also sent to write to my MP opposing it. But if I've understood the proposed bill correctly then I agree with it. As I understand it the gov want to keep public toilets separated by sex, unless there is room for a 3rd space in which case have 3. Friend said that "women of colour"* are disproportionately affected by separate bathrooms, does anyone know how?
Also would it be awful to use said letter template to write to MP agreeing with the proposal, if indeed i have understood it correctly? (The letter template wants me to refer to myself as a "cis" woman who has never felt at risk in mixed sex spaces. Which is untrue anyway)

*is this now the pc term to use? I've seen mixed messages about it.

And yes I could ask my friend to explain further, but I really don't want to fall out with her over it. AFAIK she believes TWAW and her wife identifies as "they".

[quote YetAnotherSpartacus]What's the difference between a liberal feminist and a radical feminist?

Great question! Although US-centric and I'm not sure I agree with all of the history (I think that RF is at the basis of CF) this is a great intro.

The Lib Fem position advocated is 'old style' lib feminism. At the end, they talk about 'I-Feminism' (not a common term AFAIK), but this seems a pretty good summing up of modern liberal feminism.

www.uah.edu/woolf/feminism_kinds.htm[/quote]
I'd say basically lib-fems include women and anyone who identifies as a woman (TW also then) but GC feminists (which are more rad-fem even if we don't think of ourselves as "radical") centre women in feminism.
I suspect the inclusion of TW in liberal feminism is relatively new and they feel it's very progressive etc. but it must be bloody exhausting if any of the TW they include are actually TRAs. Everything is always about them.

I mean the latter is a shit ton easier so, you know.

I don't have any issues with women doing whatever to get by.

Patriarchy is the problem. Power for women = being hot.

Handily it puts all those older women who aren't scared of saying this is shit, out of the picture as well.

All the ooh empowered women who are bigger older in their pants and bastard. Bras and they're all good looking... Meh. Fuck off dove.

Not caught up.

Old school/ second wave / radicalfeminists tend to focus on structural oppression. That women have been oppressed the world over for as long as we know. And link things up which are seen as detrimental to women and girls as all coming from the same root. (Radical meaning from the root).

Liberal feminism says let's chip away and work within the current structures. Generally seems to go with. We're in a shit place but let's make the most of it and look for small changes. Seems to have been corrupted. Starting with girl power (I was in my early 20s when spice girls hit and yes they had a different message!). In the end it's about trying to find 'power' within man built structures and is weak. Men are empowered by having power. Women are empowered by taking their clothes off. Gok wan, pole dancing, slut walk etc.

I'm biased though

So you would welcome JY (post-op) into the women's toilets but not Blaire White, who is "intact"?

What's the difference between a liberal feminist and a radical feminist?

Great question! Although US-centric and I'm not sure I agree with all of the history (I think that RF is at the basis of CF) this is a great intro.

The Lib Fem position advocated is 'old style' lib feminism. At the end, they talk about 'I-Feminism' (not a common term AFAIK), but this seems a pretty good summing up of modern liberal feminism.

www.uah.edu/woolf/feminism_kinds.htm

And there must be a certain appeal to thinking they can influence readers. I don’t know. When I was lurking, some of those posters stood out because they simply refused to engage and back up with information to refute what was being posted. Now a couple (certainly not all) of male posters seem clear from the misogyny of their posts and they seem to have a distinct lack of regard for safeguarding issues as well.

Possibly something like this?

vimeo.com/277513964

I have been told that in one of the states in America they passed a law stating that pi = 3.

(May not be true, but it does seem like a reasonable comparison.)

So just to confirm a Scottish government minister said the trans women are women and that’s the law

Then we have a Scottish government minister saying this. That TWAW and that’s the law.

What's the difference between a liberal feminist and a radical feminist? Feels like that should be a joke

Not a new poster but this Q keeps going around in my head: if this forum is so 'notoriously transphobic', why are such a high % of the posts from trans people? Why are they seeking out a space they think is out to 'get them'? Or is this just anti-feminist propaganda?