Q&A thread for New Posters

There is no data which suggests this. There is a study which is even wheeled out by those hostile to trans rights, but this study was not designed to compare rates of criminality between trans and nontrans people and so didn;t do the kind of matching for poverty etc you would expect. Also it's based on just 14 crimes committed, some of which took place 50 years ago and the dataset is unclear whether those crimes were committed by trans women or trans men. What the study did find is the number of trans people convicted of an offence has fallen sharply over time as trans people have become less marginalised - as you would expect.

Ok what data do you have that proves that males who identify as transwomen are less dangerous than other males? Prison statistics at least in UK would seem to suggest that there is no difference and that males whatever, their gender identity present a significant risk to women. Do you have proof that contradicts this?

jj68

I absolutely agree that people with a trans identity should be able to live their lives in a way that brings them peace. I agree that they should absolutely should not be abused for this.

But I stumble at 'seeking to dismantle existing rights' because I am not sure what it is you mean by this. I would like to see single sex spaces protected for both sexes. I am in favour of additional, mixed sex spaces and services for those who do not feel comfortable sharing with members of their sex for whatever reason and those who are happy with mixed sex spaces.

I am also a bit lost by 'people should have the right to define their gender and how they are legally viewed' because the fact of the matter is that everyone on the planet is either male or female (including those who are male with a DSD or female with a DSD) and their are some instances where this dictates specific sex based needs.

It was 30 years ago, late at night at a bus station full of pissed students waiting for their night buses.

I was dimly aware of two women a few yards away having a furious tearful row.

As I lit a cigarette, one of them lurched over to me, asked for a light, then proceeded to cup my hands for way too long whilst incoherently telling me I was gorgeous (side eyeing her distraught girlfriend throughout for a reaction). The girlfriend called her a fucking bitch & my new friend lurched away to resume the argument.

Then my bus came.

I definitely felt embarrassed, awkward, sorry for the girlfriend & that she was being a dick. Also, she nicked my bloody lighter!

But I was not intimidated or scared in the slightest.

It was a completely different encounter to the effect a bloke behaving similarly would have had on me - I didn't feel remotely threatened. Just thought lighter woman was not being nice to her friend & was embarrassed to be dragged into it. It's very much not the same.

& also, it's literally the only time in my entire life that I've encountered behaviour like that from a woman.

By the time I got off my bus, I'd had to fend off a much more aggressive man who actually DID make me nervous. Which happened with tedious regularity on every night out, ever.

@SophocIestheFox thank you. Great post.

Yes, that’s a good one, let’s look at “you are hostile to trans rights”.

I’m not. I absolutely and unequivocally support the right of trans identified people to live free from harassment and violence, to be able to access healthcare and housing, education and benefits, to pursue relationships, to travel, to live freely in all the ways on offer to every human being in the UK right now. I want them to be able to access any support they need to be able to do this, and feel their voices are heard, and in so far as it doesn’t impact on other people’s rights, to live according to their beliefs.

But (and it’s the crux of it), there are still times and places where women need to be able to assert our rights to male free environments, our rights to words used to describe things that are female, our rights to speak our truth and be respected. And that will mean saying to male born people “no, this is not for you, your needs are different”, or “no, I don’t agree to that”.

It is a tale as old as time that when women say “no”, it is taken as an act of hostility. This is no different.

And if someone says “there is no conflict between trans rights and women’s rights” and then in the next breath says “you feminists are hostile to trans rights”, then somethings afoot because both of those things can’t be true.

And the rights that exist are not socially enforced. Trans people should have the right to go to a toilet without worrying someone will either shout at them for being in the 'wrong' space or rape them. Trans people should have the right to walk down the street without facing violence and abuse. Trans people should have the right to define their gender and how they are legally viewed/treated without having to prove themselves to a government panel. Trans people should have the right to trans specific healthcare without waiting lists which are up to 6 years in some parts of the UK. Trans people should have the right to privacy and not be put in positions where they have to 'out' their trans status. Trans people should have the right to be treated equally in work and housing and yet poverty, unemployment and homelessness remain disproportionately high amongst trans people. Just a few examples, some of which also apply to other groups of course, and some which only really apply to trans people.

I have a question of pronouns. I have seen a few on Twitter that have stated their pronouns of choice are she/they.

I don’t understand this - which do they want used?

I thought it was she/her but they doesn’t make any sense. Should it be she/ their? Or do they want to be gender neutral in which case why use she?

jj68

those hostile to trans rights

Please can you tell me which right trans people do NOT have that everyone else does?

But , Blaire also said she does not think she should be placed in a women's prison either as she is biologically male (she says so herself), has not had genital surgery and her presence might be upsetting to women. In Blaire's opinion there should be a third option.

Well there isn't a third option is there so the point is a little moot.

No. There's no evidence for this. Denmark have recently decided to reinstate women-only prisons because of the detrimental affect on the female prisoners

This is a bit misleading. Denmark had mixed sex prisons which is somewhat different from a women's prison in which around 0.2% of inmates might be trans prisons.

I have seen data that suggests trans women maintain a more male pattern of violent criminal behaviour, especially towards women, so I'd guess not true. Even if it is reasonably rare and a minority of overall trans people.

There is no data which suggests this. There is a study which is even wheeled out by those hostile to trans rights, but this study was not designed to compare rates of criminality between trans and nontrans people and so didn;t do the kind of matching for poverty etc you would expect. Also it's based on just 14 crimes committed, some of which took place 50 years ago and the dataset is unclear whether those crimes were committed by trans women or trans men. What the study did find is the number of trans people convicted of an offence has fallen sharply over time as trans people have become less marginalised - as you would expect.

But , Blaire also said she does not think she should be placed in a women's prison either as she is biologically male (she says so herself), has not had genital surgery and her presence might be upsetting to women. In Blaire's opinion there should be a third option.

@jj1968 let's start a new thread? This one is a helpful resource.

based on the ONS figures, trans people are actually safer (from murder) than the rest of the population.

The Channel 4 factcheck os somewhat misleading as it is based on the entire trans population which if estimates are correct is roughly half made up of trans men or those born physically female. All of the people murdered have been trans women. So whilst the risk of murder may be lower/the same as non trans people for trans people overall that tells us nothing about the risk of being murdered for trans women.

@jj1968 again, this is an issue of male violence. Why is it now womens jobs to fix it?

I love this thread. Thank you.

I have requested this info from our resident trans posters arguing that they must use the women’s facilities because they are in such terrible danger in the men’s but still had nothing.

There is no evidence on this because trans women have historically used women's facilities. As such there is no dataset. The only way to get evidence would be to force trans women to use men's spaces and then record how many were attacked. This would of course be an unethical experiment.

What would do know if that trans women in male prisons are roughly thirty times more likely to be sexually assaulted then men are. So that gives some indication of how trans women might be at risk if forced to use male spaces.

Thanks for this thread!

Just to say that as a newbie I'm keen to see the "gotcha" arguments too. I've quite recently started to question my previous way of thinking and want to make sure I've considered as many arguments from both sides as possible. I think Mildly is going through lots of these, so thank you to her.

Cant move in my local Aldi for kids singing “tomorrow belongs to me” sophocles

Check the solidarity in Aldi thread. It was in a specific context, not a reference to GC feminists as a whole

Yes, I was on that thread when you posted it, and I didn’t get it then, either.

Did the Hitler Youth go to Aldi? Did they recognise each other by wearing slogan t-shirts?

@CranberriesChoccyAgain Metaphor vs simile. Should be in the dictionary somewhere!

I didn't say you are a paedophile, just that you're like one.