Q&A thread for New Posters

Types of males who want to access female spaces:

Non-dangerous pre-op transwomen.
Non-dangerous post-op transwomen.
Dangerous pre-op transwomen.
Dangerous post-op transwomen.
Dangerous males who call themselves trans and are under the Stonewall trans umbrella but aren’t actually trans according to some (“acceptance without exception, except when it demonstrates a risk we don’t want to draw attention to”).
Non-dangerous males who call themselves trans on some days of the week but not others (days of week variable, only clear to them).
Dangerous males who currently try and spy on women/girls, hide cameras, hide in crawl spaces, peep under/over doors etc.

All of these males, regardless of dangerous or non-dangerous, don’t care about women and girls having privacy from the presence of males.

So how do we distinguish between the groups, and why do any of these groups deserve “legitimate” access to women’s spaces?

It's all why should they? Why should any, single man suffer even the slightest inconvenience, when to stop that we can place any number of women at risk instead.

It's not even a conscious thought, it's instinctive. Women are the service humans, why wouldn't you treat them like that? Dur.

Yes there are times when we legitimately exclude males of course.

What exactly do you think is going on here? That's all we want, to legitimately exclude males when female people are vulnerable or require the privacy and dignity of a female only space.

A mole in MNHQ?

Uh huh. Interesting take. Doubtful.

Serial name changers and PBPs are often quite easy to spot, it’s like vegans, they’ll always let you know somehow 😉

So yes. Tell us more about how risk and fear which is WARRANTED is silly because I mean. Who can say who is a rapist anyway? Fucking male exclusionary women and girls.

Yes there are times when we legitimately exclude males of course. I didn’t intend to upset you, sorry.

That video - I find myself distracted by the absolutely stunning blossom trees in the background - it's worth watching for these alone.

But go ahead and report my post and your little mole will no doubt have a look behind the scenes and let you know outside mumsnet whether I have other name changes.

What on Earth are you talking about?

And I'm not really interested in discussing it further tbh.

It's not up to you. If women wish to discuss it, it will be discussed with or without your input.

The fact that people come and post such, frankly cruel, shit. And think they're making a great point. I mean Jesus it's outragous.

I didn’t blame anyone for anything. Except the criminals. The fact that some men are criminals doesn’t mean I think it’s ok to stop post operative trans women from using women’s toilets.

But go ahead and report my post and your little mole will no doubt have a look behind the scenes and let you know outside mumsnet whether I have other name changes. I can see how this works. Interesting.

CranberriesChoccyAgain
Title of the video is "Gender Identity: Can a 5'9, White Guy Be a 6'5, Chinese Woman?"

That video is great, thank you. Going to show it to my kids.

Given that it’s men who are violent towards TW, why do TRA go after women on social media and in real life? Why are men not piled into with anything like the same amount of volume and venom? Why do they not turn up to mens meetings banging on the windows and screaming cunt at them?

We are still making a rather big assumption that tw are at any more risk of violence than any other vulnerable male group.

Jj has been very busy in a number of threads and I’d have thought would have some good evidence to hand but so far has only responded with the claim that tw don’t suffer violence in the men’s toilets because they always use the ladies. Which is rather an outlandish claim and I don’t believe it for a second.

However, let’s make the question more general - where is the evidence that tw suffer any more violence than any other vulnerable male group? The murder rate is lower than in the general population, no trans person has been murdered in the uk since 2018 (the person murdered in 2018 was murdered by a partner) and the claims of a low life expectancy have been proven to be utter nonsense.

Globally (apart from sex workers) the murder rate of trans people is lower than the general population- a recent study in America found that they are 30% less likely to suffer violence.

Some people point to the hate crime stats but I think I’m right in saying that a recent foi found that none of the reported incidents (which include misgendering and offending a trans person) turned out to be an actual crime and bearing in mind that any form of physical violence towards a person is a crime, what does that say about the ‘rising hate crime against trans people’?

I looked at a Stonewall survey and there was one report of a transman suffering harassment and violence and some transwomen had been challenged in the ladies toilets and shouted at but very few references to actual violence that would in any way compare to the amount of violence suffered by teen gang victims in London for example.

A number of men on social media have pointed out that men are used to women/female appearing people popping into the men’s toilets fairly regularly and that doesn’t seem to be a problem for anyone.

Is it all just hearsay? Where is Stonewall’s actual evidence of violence? They do surveys about how safe people feel but considering the many claims that misgendering or stating biological fact make people feel unsafe I’m not sure that is any evidence of actual violence.

Approx 200 women per year are murdered. Countless women suffer from domestic violence and there approx 100,000 rapes per year (of which 1% result in conviction).

When reporting transgender people as victims the media have been scrupulous to make it clear that they are transgender (as opposed to when transwomen commit crime they are reported as being women).

I’ll try and dig out the actual foi.

Quick question for those who keep trotting out the 'predatory lesbian' trope:

What are the chances of a lesbian attacking, sexually assaulting and impregnating another woman?

I think this all comes back to the definition of woman. Feminists here define women as adult human (biological) females.

Stonewall want this to be “everyone who feels like a woman” but then cannot define woman. With the Stonewall umbrella, there are a massive amount of trans women who all need access to female spaces where females are vulnerable (hospitals, prisons, changing rooms) and want to compete in women’s sports.

Whenever women on this board point out how wrong that is, some poster pops up and argues that trans women are different, kind, peaceful and vulnerable. And whenever that poster is faced with evidence that some trans women are the very opposite of kind, peaceful and vulnerable, the poster argues that it is the wrong kind of trans woman.

But I think two things are important here.

a) there is no way to tell different kinds of trans women apart and all lobbying is aiming to get access for all of them.

b) the poster who argues that some trans women are a special type, kind etc, still firmly believes that it is perfectly ok that those special trans women have penises.

c) and whenever people here argue that it may not be ok for teenage girls to shower and change with biological males with penises (regardless of how the penis people identify), they are told that more cubicles are needed and that nobody should be naked in a changing room. Completely disregarding the fact that communal changing rooms are a reality in big parts of the country. Women are told that more cubicles should be built.

d) BUT, when it is argued that biological males with penises not should be in women’s prisons, women are told that the reality is that there only are male and female prisons, so they have to accept reality. And put the right kind of trans women with the women. Whatever that is.

It is almost like the third prison wing would be too easy to organise whereas it is ok to campaign for changing cubicles for everyone as this never will happen.

Why is it women’s job to solve the problem of male violence towards TW?

And

Given that it’s men who are violent towards TW, why do TRA go after women on social media and in real life? Why are men not piled into with anything like the same amount of volume and venom? Why do they not turn up to mens meetings banging on the windows and screaming cunt at them?

And every thing NiceGerbil said. With nobs on.

The questions are about post operative trans women legally using women’s spaces. Because of their biology.

If a transwoman isn’t male / a man, they are not a transwoman. Because biology.

Unless I missed the memo and I can be a transwoman now

I'm so angered by that comment.

'A person has a one night stand (male or female). How do they ever tell who is a murderer or rapist and who isn’t?

Some people are just bad. It doesn’t mean we stop everyone from living their life.'

Everyone being who? Men.

Your plan of non discrimination means that girls and women should not think twice before going home with a group of men they don't know. Because some people are bad and you can't tell and it shouldn't stop you from living your life.

Women all over the world. Now. Historically. For as far as we can remember. Have had their lives limited by society, by convention, by law. By what they have consumed which is, we are PREY and never forget it.

Fucking hell.

From victim blaming in the 'West' (what did you expect?) to being covered from head to toe lest we inflame men's sexual desires. To being rejected by family etc due to having been abducted and raped. Killed for having sex with the wrong person/ outside of marriage etc etc.

News story on the BBC the other day about a talented out lesbian footballer in South Africa. She was brutally raped and murdered.

So yes. Tell us more about how risk and fear which is WARRANTED is silly because I mean. Who can say who is a rapist anyway? Fucking male exclusionary women and girls.

John warboys was a rapist. The police let him go for years because they didn't believe the women.

The grooming gangs in Rotherham etc were rapists. They were left to get on with it for years because the victims were viewed as off the rails. Child prostitutes.

Come on. Tell me more about how women and girls should accept you can't tell who is a rapist or a murderer and not let it stop them from 'living their lives'.

The fact that people come and post such, frankly cruel, shit. And think they're making a great point. I mean Jesus it's outragous.

Similar enough though in terms of toileting logistics.

And even more similar to a man who has lost his penis due to cancer.

People who decide to make radical changes to their body for cosmetic purposes should think harder about what life will be like for them afterwards, and whether it might be easier to try to live with the body they have.

The idea that women should make all sorts of concessions to accommodate males who don't want to be men indicates an extraordinary amount of entitlement on their part.

A person has a one night stand (male or female). How do they ever tell who is a murderer or rapist and who isn’t?

Some people are just bad. It doesn’t mean we stop everyone from living their life.'

Are you serious?

Well erm a lot to comment on there I'll try to keep it brief.

Your argument supports mixed sex for everything.

What impact do you think that will have on women and girls around the world?

Stand by your words. You can't tell who is bad and who isn't and it's discrimination to make assumptions.

Tell me, with a proper answer. Please. What you think this will mean in reality around the world.

The other point. Has really fucked me off.

Have you not heard of victim blaming? Where women are girls are routinely blamed for being assaulted?

Are you unaware of the restrictions that women and girls put on their lives. Encouraged by society. To minimise risk of 'bad men'.
Have you not noticed how when there's a (male) sex attackers at large, women and girls are the ones told to stay in?

Don't accept a drink
Keep your drink with you at all times
Don't wear headphones when you go for a jog
Never go anywhere be yourself after dark
If you are raped by a friend you went home work. Or a man you met that night. Or a man you went on a date with. Or a man who paid you attention when you were at school. Or a work colleague when you're away on business...

What did you expect? What were you wearing? Why did you let him walk you home? Why did you go back to his room to work on the presentation. Why were you walking home alone?

WHAT DID YOU EXPECT????

I would like an answer.

What a totally fucking clueless post.

Do men's toilets not have, you know, a toilet in them? Like when they need to shit? Fuck sake, why is this a question on a forum about women's rights?

"Well not exactly no. Similar enough though in terms of toileting logistics."

Please look into women's public toilets and the reasons why we need more of them, and the various reasons women need more time in them. The term "potty parity", although silly (if not quite as silly as your assertion), will help you with this.

Surely trans women post operative or not do not wish to make women and girls feel uncomfortable.