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Original poster

Reply from MP: sex segregated spaces.

60 replies

sofakingg00d · 12/02/2021 18:30

I emailed my labour MP after reading the Alex Sobel tweets. Here is the response:

I know this is an emotional and fraught debate and acknowledge that there are strongly held views on all sides. Personally, I think people should be able to access facilities that match their gender identity, as they have done for many years. Indeed, under the Equality Act, trans people have the right to access single-sex services in line with their ‘acquired gender’, and they are not required to obtain a Gender Recognition Certificate, or have undergone any form of medical intervention, to be eligible for support in these services. However, under the Act, it is lawful for single-sex services to provide a different service or refuse their service to someone who is undergoing, has undergone or is proposing to undergo ‘gender reassignment’, in circumstances where they can demonstrate that doing so constitutes a ‘proportionate means of achieving a legitimate aim’.

Trans people, particularly trans women (and by extension, particularly black trans women) are especially vulnerable to being victims of violent crime and hate crime, and they, like everyone, must feel safe in bathrooms, changing rooms, and other facilities. Of course, everyone, whether trans or cis, should use such facilities respectfully, and with consideration for other users. On refuges, I think the focus should be on ensuring services have the resources they need to meet the needs of cis women and trans women. We do of course also need to listen to people’s genuine concerns about safe spaces, particularly those who have been the victim of assault or abuse – but I think these concerns can, and should, be addressed in a sensitive way without discriminating against trans people.

I don’t think this subject can be adequately discussed and addressed on social media (or through the leaking of review recommendations, as happened last year). These discussions must be conducted on the basis of fact and respect, and Labour is committed to listening to women and to LGBT+ communities to ensure our policies protect and respect everyone’s rights. I want you to know that I am listening and that I take on board all perspectives on this issue, even if they differ from my own.

Any help in drafting a response? I want to include some stats about women Vs transwomen as victims of violent crime - anybody recall a good source?

OP posts:
Gcnq · 12/02/2021 19:20

It's a copy and paste reply provided by the assistant I'd bet. All Labour MPs are at it, sticking to the party line without bothering to engage themselves.

Good luck in getting a response from your actual MP, Sofa

BlackForestCake · 12/02/2021 19:10

You could mention how a feminist meeting on the fringe of the Labour Party conference was threatened and picketed by a howling mob and that only one single Labour MP dared to say it was a less than ideal way of furthering the debate.

dotoallasyouwouldbedoneby · 12/02/2021 19:07

Don't forget to include the 2 women murdered by male partners in UK per day figure. (Check the source I don't have it)

dotoallasyouwouldbedoneby · 12/02/2021 19:05

Totally captured just paying lip service minimally to retain your vote.

StillWeRise · 12/02/2021 18:58

Of course transwomen should feel safe in toilets and changing rooms. This matter should be addressed urgently by men.
If transwomen are experiencing domestic abuse, this is terrible and I will fully support them when they organise to provide these, I would even happily attend a jumble sale or coffee morning to raise funds for such a refuge.
Regarding sports I can imagine that transwomen may not feel comfortable competing with men. In my opinion, this should be an issue they are encouraged to explore when they begin transitioning (you know, in the extensive non directive counselling sessions they have prior to transitioning). For a very athletic person, they might want to ask themselves, 'which is most important to me...competing in sport, or 'living as a woman'?' They may find a solution that is acceptable, teams or leagues for transwomen only, but I imagine their would be logistical issues....but a committed athlete would surely try and address these rather than compete in any unfair way, as that would be unsporting.

Original poster
sofakingg00d · 12/02/2021 18:57

Yes this a female MP in a safe labour seat, I suspected she was pretty 'captured' before this response.

Thanks for you help, I'll have a go a drafting something over the weekend.

How blunt can you be with an MP?

OP posts:
oldwomanwhoruns · 12/02/2021 18:49

The ignorance of your MP is breathtaking.
"Trans people, particularly trans women (and by extension, particularly black trans women) are especially vulnerable to being victims of violent crime"
NO they are not. Women and girls are especially vulnerable to being victims of violent crime.

And as to your MP also conflating 'hate crimes' onto the end of that - does your MP not know that only certain groups are DEFINED as being the recipients of hate crime?? And women are NOT included in that group? So of course the groups so defined will have more 'hate crimes' against them, as that's what the law says.

We all need to stand for parliament... get some intelligence in there Angry

OhHolyJesus · 12/02/2021 18:47

Fair play for women would be a good source. The black trans women being the most likely to be victims of a crime is just nonsense. There is no evidence for that at all.

The GRC point is wrong though he/she is right, the 'proposing to undergo' is basically Self ID. I'd also ask about what he/she considered a legitimate aim and whether addressing these concerns also shouldn't be done so in a way to discriminate against women.

I'd pull him/her up on the word C*s. Using that word alone makes it's obvious he or she is fully captured but he or she (sounds like a she to me) says she's listening.

I'd then ask about sport, rape crisis centres and prisons because this is where the Be Kind crew can get to the root of the problem. They really don't think TWAW all of the time.

SunsetBeetch · 12/02/2021 18:45

Fucking hell what a load of ill-informed shite.

(Don't put that.)

OvaHere · 12/02/2021 18:42

There's a couple of similar discussions here that might have useful pointers

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/a4157419-My-MSP-Wants-to-Talk-To-Me-About-Womens-Rights

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3964332-MP-response-In-shock

I think FairPlayForWomen website may have the stats you are looking for.