ONS reversed decision to record census by sex

Not.

Fit.

For.

Purpose.

I don't understand why they don't have 2 questions

What is your sex
What gender do you identify as

The data from the census would be far more useful!!

@CormorantStrike in your position/field, is there a body you can raise this with as a matter of urgency? First port of call would be the ONS so that's no good, but who would the ONS pay attention to? anyone?

Huffington Post wanting a "non binary journo" to write on gender options in official paperwork. So if you have short hair and wear trousers maybe get in touch?

Perhaps the objection can include mass ordering of the paper version in order to make the objection as clear as possible?

Does anyone know how to get hold of a paper version? I plan to cross the question out & replace it with "Sex:"

On every point where better data has been sought, ideological TRAs have stymied it, be it medical research or statistical analysis. The only people clamouring for accurate, useful data are the ones being characterized as 'anti-trans' and threatened in various ways by the self-styled good guys.

This is a very, very important thing to keep in mind the next time someone tells you trans people are the most oppressed demographic of all. Ask them 'how can you possibly know without accurate data, and why would not want the best data to secure the best outcomes?'

It usually quickly becomes apparent who cares about trans people, and who is just a thoroughly unpleasant human who enjoys bullying women via any means possible.

This year it is a digital form so I'm thinking of ordering a paper copy so I can make it quite clear with an old fashioned pen how I am defining my sex.

Good idea - and I might answer the gender identity question - gender critical

This year it is a digital form so I'm thinking of ordering a paper copy so I can make it quite clear with an old fashioned pen how I am defining my sex.

Cormorant, I appreciate your concern and naturally your job matters to you, if not me.

Perhaps you could have a word with the research council, the ESRC. They're social scientists, aren't they, funding research into economic and social matters, with public money. I wonder if their priorities are the same as yours. I doubt they are mine.

As BuntingEllacott wrote, ideological TRAs are not doing this to support trans people getting services they need. One thing that comes to my mind is that arguments in support of the ideology sometimes require there to be many trans people and sometimes require there to be very few. Accurate data would compromise this fluidity in the basis of arguments.

If it’s based on your passport, which I don’t have, do I not exist?
If I don’t exist, why am being billed tax and council tax......
they can b**r off.

she seems to think that they are in some way more enlightened, on a higher plane of conciousness. Unbound by stuffy rules and definitions.

Yes, every generation does. It's all dancing with the hippies in central park, the joy of a new dawn.

And then a couple of decades later, it dawns on you that your parents and previous generations aren't stuck, stupid old fogeys who didn't get it, they just had a fuckton more life experience than you. And you now realise what you were too naiive to realise but they understood. And kept to, despite your constant wittering at them.

How does making it impossible to tell how many trans identified people there are mesh with the cries of 'you t..fs want us not to exist' ?
Surely, as pps have said, it would work towards a fair distribution of funds if the government has proper figures?
(Ah, I may just have seen the problem with my argument...)

Cormorant I have every sympathy with you

In a previous job role I've sat round a table with piles of data doing forecasts and planning for community need - fictionalising it makes it an unjustifiable waste of everyone's time and money.

It harms no one to ask them in a confidential document to record their sex at birth, legal sex if different and their preferred named gender alongside it (and make the second two optional to share if wanted). These are facts. They don't change. The data is necessary and some adult responsibilities are more important than personal feelings.

No I won't spoil my census. We've got to do something though. Riot? Smash shit up? I feel like it.

I had a interaction with some kid on twitter just now and I had an epiphany. She really, truly, genuinely believes that her generation have evolved, (she doesn't actually understand what evolution is), but she seems to think that they are in some way more enlightened, on a higher plane of conciousness. Unbound by stuffy rules and definitions. It's so fucking depressing and it's real and by the time she has kids and understands it will be too late.

Let it be compromised, let it be compromised to the point of uselessness.

They wither want factual data or they don’t, they clearly don’t.

I wonder though, would it be worth noting Gender Critical in any gender field? It might help send a message if enough of us do it.... and might highlight our plight in 2121 like the old suffragettes did in theirs.

@MichelleofzeResistance I know, I agree with you and its shit. There is no easy answer. I guess I am probably in denial that the census, which is such an amazing resource and has been used to do so much research that could help improve people's lives, has been horribly compromised .

[quote CormorantStrike]@ChonkyChook I can understand why you feel that way, I really can. It is all so frustrating and to be honest it is making me pretty angry on many levels. Obviously because it is more erasure of women, which being in academia is an ongoing struggle. And on a professional level, it is just going to make people mistrust statistics even more, which makes my job much harder and makes me feel like I am wasting my time :-(

The ONS is supposed to be ensuring that its data meet certain quality criteria - including accuracy and reliability - and this decision is totally undermining that. It's utterly depressing.[/quote]
Genuinely feel for you, it sounds crap.

I've been sticking my neck out for ages speaking up on this, I've lost friends, had to leave a sports club, I'm not sitting down now.

They can take me to court.

Not a fucking chance am I filling the rest of that out correctly if they’re allowing fantasy choices in the Sex field. I hope the 2021 census does go down as the one where no data could be trusted. There need to be consequences to this shit.

@Abitofalark Quantitative social scientists are the ones calling for the robust data on both sex and gender... we need quality data to do our work!

Can I just make a plea for people not to spoil there census return...

But this is in effect asking people who are capable of putting other people's needs and interests above their own to stay in their box to enable others to get out of it at will.

No. I will not obey laws that apply only to some people, and try to protect the system from being totally fucked up in the process. If it's going to be fucked up then the more fucked up it gets the better and as fast as possible until it's re thought. It's appalling to spend this kind of tax payer money and staff time on data that will be fictionalised and more about the emotional experience of the filler in than forward planning for their community.

Fucked up priorities, fucked up boundaries. I'm not supporting that.

Wtaf. This is madness.

@ChonkyChook I can understand why you feel that way, I really can. It is all so frustrating and to be honest it is making me pretty angry on many levels. Obviously because it is more erasure of women, which being in academia is an ongoing struggle. And on a professional level, it is just going to make people mistrust statistics even more, which makes my job much harder and makes me feel like I am wasting my time :-(

The ONS is supposed to be ensuring that its data meet certain quality criteria - including accuracy and reliability - and this decision is totally undermining that. It's utterly depressing.

And if anyone can routinely do that day to day, anyone can follow the same practice when filling in the census.

Furthermore, what's so magically special about gender that means it alone trumps reality? Why can't other things like age, ethnicity, disability and nationality also trump reality? Therefore, it will be entirely logical for me to (I stress) genuinely identify on the day as a 76-year-old Korean man of Yemeni nationality, with dementia.