ONS reversed decision to record census by sex

FFS

The census informs loads of public policy and spending.

If it's wonky then there is a real long term knock on effect.

It's not trivial.

I can't believe the fucking ONS of all people are doing this.

What the hell is wrong with sex at birth/ are you trans how do you ID?

That will be really useful info for those looking into needs and studying about the trans community.

Under this idea. Say you've changed your passport (easily done) or your gas bill (?) or whatever. And you were male at birth.

You say you are female and not trans.

So that's a stat lost to those interested in the number of trans people and trying to understand their needs.

1. Ordering paper copies
2. Spoiling the sex question in some collectively agreed way.

They can't jail all of us. This is too good an opportunity to miss. Such a chance at high-profile public 'disruption' is a real gift, no?

I will be answering my census questions accurately as possible.

It seems to me that to do otherwise plays into the hands of queer theorists. They seek to discredit and destabilise data, science, truth and objective reality. I won’t join them in that goal. Their aim is to obscure facts with fantasy and to promote the ever changing feelings of individuals over concrete facts.

They would love nothing more than proof that data collection is pointless.

Yes. All of this relies on people, often female people, being the 'bigger person', self sacrificing, being Mummy and providing the situation for others.

While accepting the unfairness and lack of reciprocation. It splits society into the givers and the takers. The serving and the served.

No. I don't see that as my birth right, or my Christian duty, or anything else medieval. I am not everybody's mummy.

As with so many things they rely on a small enough proportion of people giving their sex at birth.

Like how in so many other things they rely on people understanding the subtext eg the NHS getting pregnant page.

It's infuriating.

Is this UK wide? Or just in England? Sorry, I have googled but I can't seem to find an answer.

I absolutely get the bananas of this but could their potentially be an upside?

If there is a massive pick up in females in the population doesn't the government then need to revise spending criteria for services and even if the information is biologically false, women's groups can use this to their advantage.

Obviously women specific services are dire but this could potentially help she sunlight on this..

...ready to be schooled on why I'm wrong

I've written to Boris Johnson too. My MP is useless. Maybe if Johnson receives hundreds of emails someone in his office might notice. It's not that I think he cares but if he thinks women are pissed off if he might ask questions. He's not stupid where voters are concerned.

@picklemewalnuts To be honest that is already being done by people with far more clout than a lowly research associate like me (Profs like Alice Sullivan) - if they can't influence this decision it's very unlikely anybody else could.

Absolute load of rubbish. What's the point in statistics if they're so way out as this. Utterly ridiculous.

Are the results used, for example, to determine how to allocate funds where they're needed most? It wouldn't be to any trans person's advantage to give the opposite of their birth sex on a census, would it? Sorry if this question sounds naive.

Fair Play for Women article who were the first to identify this reverse reverse
fairplayforwomen.com/ons-reverses-promise-on-sex-data/

WPUK are urging anyone wiht concerns to write to their MP
womansplaceuk.org/2021/02/10/sex-and-the-census-call-to-action/

I believe it's illegal to give false info on the census.

Apparently not any more.

And since it cannot be illegal to give false information just on ONE bit of the census the whole contract of trust between government and populace in demanding, under threat of prosecution, this extremely detailed and sensitive data....

has just been set on fire.

www.conservativesforwomen.org/the-census-should-not-be-used-to-promote-trans-humanist-ideology-call-to-action

There will be protests; how they will work is as yet unclear but we cannot just roll over for this.

RandomMess

There are two questions. One on sex and a later optional one on gender identity.

The problem is they are saying that the question on sex can be answered anywya you want - ie not specifically the biological sex you were born.

That is the issue and has been from the start. That the ONS has been persuaded despite all the evidence that you can choose a sex.

I wonder which other census questions which are meant to reflect the truth can be answered how you feel. ie I feel 20 years younger than I am!

I can see that @CormorantStrike . But rather than raising it as an ideological, feminist issue which would certainly risk your job, can't you just raise it as an incomplete data issue? Point out the ways it makes data muddy? That we need to identify the numbers of natal men, natal women and trans men and women? That by mixing some of the categories, they all become useless.

Raise it clearly as a data processing issue, not a gender critical one.

I believe it's illegal to give false info on the census.

So this is very interesting indeed.

Someone started a thread asking why religion is declining in the UK.

I haven't read all of it. Only the OP and the very first few posts.

It's not declining necessarily. It's just that sociologists their government led grant givers are recording inaccurate information.

I'm sorry, Cormorant.

But the data will be useless, and what is more they need to be shown clearly that the data is useless.

It potentially will fuck up this lot of data, but it's going to be useless nonsense in any case.

Longterm, hopefully the case might be made that data needs to be accurate and reflect reality.

You raise an interesting point Thing.

Those for whom practicing law in the UK is allowed. Any thoughts, hints, opinions?

I assume this means that the ONS guidance on the sex question will be the wording used in trials?

If that's the case I can not (honestly) answer the question with my birth sex.

There are only now different groups dedicated to uncovering and noting the facts of different groups of people. ACTUAL FACTS.

For example: Lesbian groups on - and offline - recording the accurate existence of lesbian women in previous times.

Ethnicity related groups recording the accurate genesis, evolution and successes of varied ethnic pioneers eg black women pioneers in Space exploration. Mixed-race world leaders. Asian female pioneers.

By demanding this of its citizens, the UK Cenus government task force is demanding the recording of lies and inaccuracies, that future historians will have to pick through. That will cost future governments money and goodwill.

@allpicklemewalnuts I guess it would be the Office for Statistical Regulation (OSR). I know they have engaged a bit with this issue in relation to Scotland but nothing seems to have come of it.

The issue I have personally is that I can't afford to lose my job (I have two children and bills to pay!) so don't feel like I can make my views known publicly. It is an absolutely crazy situation to be in.