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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

ONS reversed decision to record census by sex

266 replies

purpleboy · 11/02/2021 15:21

mobile.twitter.com/fairplaywomen/status/1359875526261882887?s=19

The ons has reversed its decision to record the census next month by sex.

Time for a mass campaign? Shall we all ID as men?

Might make them take notice, especially if they hear in advance?

OP posts:
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Abitofalark · 11/02/2021 17:21

We are all working, nay, living with data and everybody wants our data, it seems. You can't even have a virus test or a vaccination without being asked Do you identify as? Whatever that is. I don't take kindly to the question and I do not obediently parrot I identify as.

But, me aside, seeing as anyone can be female one day and male the next, or some other notional undefined thing on Saturdays, what does that do to the precious data? And if anyone can routinely do that day to day, anyone can follow the same practice when filling in the census. And what are social scientists doing about that?

TheElementsSong · 11/02/2021 17:20

@nauticant

I'm tempted to tick boxes randomly and write next to each answer "while this doesn't reflect actual reality, this is how I'm identifying at the time of filling in this form".
This sounds like how I'll be genuinely FEELING on the day, oh yes indeed.
CormorantStrike · 11/02/2021 17:16

@TabbyStar

Can I just make a plea for people not to spoil there census return... I am a social scientist who works with data and the census is such a valuable resource - even if the sex data is compromised by this decision, there is so much other information that would be lost if people don't fill it in correctly!

For one thing it will presumably be possible to do statistical analysis on the similarities and differences between women and transwomen, which I'd be very interested in (though does the phrasing of the questions enable that, I've not been paying close attention as I don't want to be annoyed?!)

This is exactly the issue - at the moment, the way the question is contextualised (not the question itself, which still asks about sex) means that people may interpret sex as 'gender', despite there being a separate question about gender identity. As a pp notes, this means we cannot robustly identify transwomen/men, which to my mind is damaging for the transgender community as well as for women! But I take the point that supporting trans people isn't really part of the TRA agenda...
nauticant · 11/02/2021 17:15

I'm tempted to tick boxes randomly and write next to each answer "while this doesn't reflect actual reality, this is how I'm identifying at the time of filling in this form".

ChonkyChook · 11/02/2021 17:09

@CormorantStrike

Alice Sullivan has a twitter thread on this - there is a letter in the Times today: twitter.com/ProfAliceS/status/1359779914283687939

The thing is, they are still going to include the question on sex (and a follow-up about gender identity), it is how they are defining sex in the guidance that seems to be the issue. Instead of asking for legal sex registered at birth, ie. natal sex (not that it should really need the qualifier, but there you go!), it is suggesting using legal sex as recorded on eg. your passport, which can be changed as an adult...

PS. Can I just make a plea for people not to spoil there census return... I am a social scientist who works with data and the census is such a valuable resource - even if the sex data is compromised by this decision, there is so much other information that would be lost if people don't fill it in correctly!

If they're asking for make believe they'll be getting it on all questions from us. Sorry.
TabbyStar · 11/02/2021 17:06

Can I just make a plea for people not to spoil there census return... I am a social scientist who works with data and the census is such a valuable resource - even if the sex data is compromised by this decision, there is so much other information that would be lost if people don't fill it in correctly!

For one thing it will presumably be possible to do statistical analysis on the similarities and differences between women and transwomen, which I'd be very interested in (though does the phrasing of the questions enable that, I've not been paying close attention as I don't want to be annoyed?!)

CaraDuneRedux · 11/02/2021 17:03

@ArabellaScott

I want to know exactly how it's phrased. If it's 'gender identity' I will be 'gender neutral' or some other made-up bollocks phrase.
"none"
CormorantStrike · 11/02/2021 16:59

Alice Sullivan has a twitter thread on this - there is a letter in the Times today: twitter.com/ProfAliceS/status/1359779914283687939

The thing is, they are still going to include the question on sex (and a follow-up about gender identity), it is how they are defining sex in the guidance that seems to be the issue. Instead of asking for legal sex registered at birth, ie. natal sex (not that it should really need the qualifier, but there you go!), it is suggesting using legal sex as recorded on eg. your passport, which can be changed as an adult...

PS. Can I just make a plea for people not to spoil there census return... I am a social scientist who works with data and the census is such a valuable resource - even if the sex data is compromised by this decision, there is so much other information that would be lost if people don't fill it in correctly!

HubertHerbert · 11/02/2021 16:50

How are they going to know if we put something different to what appears on the passport?

Lifeinaonesie · 11/02/2021 16:50

Can I identify myself as a koala then? I love hugging trees and getting stoned on eucalyptus in my spare time.

TheElementsSong · 11/02/2021 16:49

So, how can we register a protest on the form?

Slub · 11/02/2021 16:47

Yep I don't have a passport therefore presumably I don't exist.

ThatIsNotMyUsername · 11/02/2021 16:47

I don’t have one right now.

Justforphoto · 11/02/2021 16:38

If they are asking about how you are identified on your passport how the hell do you answer if you do not have a passport?

purpleboy · 11/02/2021 16:37

CROSSTALK I have only seen it on FPFW website/Twitter page. It says government official leaked.

ONS reversed decision to record census by sex
OP posts:
talkingdeadscot · 11/02/2021 16:33

Or maybe I won't Grin

Roystonv · 11/02/2021 16:33

Oh ffs where is the common sense in that decision, it goes against everything statistical. Are we through the looking glass; nonsensical. Surely you collect facts and then give the option to declare feelz. Why conduct it if you make it useless from the start. What a shame to invalidate all the valuable info previous ones have collected by what will be a shambles. Sorry no educated, thoughtful comments just spluttering disbelief.

talkingdeadscot · 11/02/2021 16:30

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crosstalk · 11/02/2021 16:28

Can you link to this reversal? I've been on the ONS website and can't find it. I note they use gender rather than sex in most searches - when did that happen? Like a PP I can't see why they are reluctant to offer both sex/gender given it's surely anonimised. How do people work out roughly who is choosing to transgender and what future policy might be based on?

WookeyHole · 11/02/2021 16:20

Would a petition on the parliament website be a good place to try? Risky if it doesn't get the 100,000 but someone who could word a really good succinct proposal should garner a lot of support.

Impatiens · 11/02/2021 16:16

@Mollyollydolly

I'm absolutely up for a mass campaign. They can fine me, take me to court, I don't give a shit. It's an ideal opportunity where we can make ourselves heard .. they'll regret it.
I'm in.
ArabellaScott · 11/02/2021 16:16

I want to know exactly how it's phrased. If it's 'gender identity' I will be 'gender neutral' or some other made-up bollocks phrase.

Impatiens · 11/02/2021 16:15

*who aren't TRA

Impatiens · 11/02/2021 16:15

You've started with the assumption that ideological TRAs are doing this to support trans people getting services they need. Fatal flaw.

Exactly. None of this stuff is about supporting trans people, as can be seen by the regular throwings-under-the-bus of any trans

Highwind · 11/02/2021 16:14

Well since they aren’t interested in accurate data, I won’t force it upon them. I will answer based on my favourite book character (sans the name).

Will at least make it a bit more fun to fill out. Now, I wonder how many bedrooms he would have had? Best go re-read to brush up on my knowledge and get myself into character!

Fuck them.

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