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Original poster

Woman's Hour today is interviewing someone from the Tavistock about puberty blockers

112 replies

nauticant · 10/02/2021 10:09

It'll be interesting to get a sense of how Emma Barnett thinks the discussion should be handled.

OP posts:
Dalyesque · 10/02/2021 13:18

Excellent that so much time was given to this without interruption and interventions from Emma. I think the Tavistock response was defensive and this was clearly an attempt to justify the past , which was so cleverly exposed by Dr Bell. I thought Emma sounded a bit desperate in putting forward the other view.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 10/02/2021 13:17

Ah ok, that's a tad unprofessional from the BBC Grin Glad it wasn't a redaction.

Original poster
nauticant · 10/02/2021 13:13

During the live broadcast there were a few seconds where the audio died ItsAllGoingToBeFine.

OP posts:
ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 10/02/2021 13:00

Does anyone know what's been wiped from the recording at about 11:55mins?

www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m000s2jx

rogdmum · 10/02/2021 13:00

There’s no follow up once they leave the Tavi anyway and an awful lot of adolescents age out of the Tavi before they are even seen (i.e. go directly to adult services) so how they can come up with any reliable statistics is beyond me.

Original poster
nauticant · 10/02/2021 12:56

That's one key point ErrolTheDragon, they dodged the issue of how many go onto pharmacological interventions.

Here's what they actually said:

"[The Tavistock] have always been confident that fewer than half of children [the Tavistock] see go on to have physical treatment."

"Physical treatment" is a euphemism used to make unclear what's going on.

The Tavistock statement is worth a close listen:
"the Gender Identity Development Service was not set up as a conduit to puberty blockers", to suggest this is "inaccurate" and "insulting".
"most often this does not include access to physical treatment in the service." "in the service" is another way of saying "not me guv".
"the minority of our patients who are referred to puberty blockers prescribed by other NHS trusts". More "not me guv".

Notice what's missing, it's cross-sex hormones. They really do not want to engage with the fact that, as the High Court found, puberty blockers lead to cross-sex hormones. Ask yourself this question, if nearly all kids given puberty blockers end up on cross-sex hormones, and fewer than half of all kids given puberty blockers end up having "physical treatment", why are the Tavistock avoiding discussing the significant proportion of kids given puberty blockers who end up in gender limbo, with opposite sex secondary sexual characteristics (to some degree) but for some reason without going on any further in their transitions?

OP posts:
StanfordPines · 10/02/2021 12:42

@steppemum

pity she read out that VERY LOOOONG statement from Tavistock with no come back. Some of what is in that statement is obviously not what is happening on the ground
But it is right that the whole thing was read out. That way everyone has been given their say.
prisencolinensinainciusol2 · 10/02/2021 12:40

I'd listen to Radio Mumsnet.

Could someone have a word with Justine?

perpetualnamechanger · 10/02/2021 12:37

m.youtube.com/watch?v=s29RKnB7l7o

Can we play this on mumsnet radio for Nigel?

Ereshkigalangcleg · 10/02/2021 12:33

It would be awesome if Radio Mumsnet existed! Can you imagine?

ErrolTheDragon · 10/02/2021 12:28

I thought that meant they'd dodged the issue of how many go onto pharmacological interventions by quoting the surgical instead. 'Physical interventions' is a bit ambiguous.

Coffeeandcocopops · 10/02/2021 12:26

Excellent interview. How can anyone ignore his sensible cautious approach.

highame · 10/02/2021 12:22

If I recall correctly, in the statement the Tavistock sneakily reformulated the High Court's finding that nearly all children and young people on puberty blockers go onto cross-sex hormones into only 50% go from puberty blockers to physical interventions.

So are they going to change their evidence in the JR from not having a clue how many went forward, to having a closer look and deciding it's now 50%. This would be a game changer for the KB case, though it doesn't take away the experimentation and lack of understanding of the consequences, it does mean that the route to medication and surgery is not a foregone conclusion.

unwashedanddazed · 10/02/2021 12:19

I think Dr Bell plays such an important role in the public realm around this debate. He's always calm and clear and obviously extremely well informed. He's also very polite whilst maintaining an authorative voice. He also clearly cares a great deal about the lives of these children.

He's just what is needed to counteract all the yelling and mud-slinging that usually accompanies this issue.

unwashedanddazed · 10/02/2021 12:13

mobile.twitter.com/meta4ical/status/1359451393724153856

Any man who refers to a child as a "trans little" rings massive warning bells.

WinterIsGone · 10/02/2021 12:11

And on TODAY early, mention of the Brighton breastfeeding word challenge.
Yes, I was amazed. When there's been anything about this on the front page of a newspaper before, the paper review has studiously avoided mentioning it. This time, they gave it a long mention.

Dalyesque · 10/02/2021 12:07

And on TODAY early, mention of the Brighton breastfeeding word challenge. Maybe things really are changing.

prisencolinensinainciusol2 · 10/02/2021 11:57

Excellent point Errol

OvaHere · 10/02/2021 11:52

Not listened to this but sounds like Dr Bell did a great job. I believe he has also been allowed to intervene in the Tavistock appeal. Hopefully he can apply his obvious knowledge and good sense there too.

ErrolTheDragon · 10/02/2021 11:33

But, yeah she let him speak..

And he didn't let her cut in before he'd finished what he wanted to say. How often does that happen if it's 'he and her' rather than 'she and him', the interviewee being treated with respect?

It's a good thing it was him rather than a woman who was in his particular position, tbh.

prisencolinensinainciusol2 · 10/02/2021 11:23

@AbsintheFriends

Nige can't bear that Woman's Hour and Mumsnet have the audacity to exist and not centre his views. Poor Nige.

Not my Nigel. 😂😂😂

Thingybob · 10/02/2021 11:22

Wow thankyou Dr Bell, brilliant interview delivered with clarity, logical reasoning and authority whist still being compassionate to the needs of those with gender dysphoria.

He also raised such an important point that there is a distinction between somebody with GD and a transgender person. You only become the later once you are affirmed, either medically or socially.

RoyalCorgi · 10/02/2021 11:19

Nige can't bear that Woman's Hour and Mumsnet have the audacity to exist and not centre his views. Poor Nige.

It's very much the same attitude as we saw in the Handforth Parish Council meeting. When they interviewed those men afterwards, they clearly thought that Jackie Weaver was bullying them. It seems to be that some men see any expression of dissent or disagreement by women, however mild, however polite, as an act of hostility and aggression.

NotBadConsidering · 10/02/2021 11:17

Slight derail:
How good would Radio Mumsnet be though? People being allowed to talk freely, would scare the hell out of people. Imagine Jo Swinson on Radio Mumsnet, she thought Anna from Warwick gave her a tough question! I think Justine should consider it.

AbsintheFriends · 10/02/2021 11:13

Nige can't bear that Woman's Hour and Mumsnet have the audacity to exist and not centre his views. Poor Nige.

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