Breastfeeding is now chestfeeding, Brighton’s trans-friendly midwives are told

[quote Kettledodger]@jj1968 nope still don't get it. Surely a lot of men "really" want children but only women can be pregnant. So I ask again if you are a trans man living your life in every way as a man then by being pregnant is hypocritical IMO [/quote]
If a medical procedure was developed that allowed men to have kids I'm sure some would if they were in same sex couples or their partner was unable to. Wouldn't mean they weren't men.

No-one is perfectly free from hypocrisy if that's what you think it is. If someone genuinely experiences gender dysphoria and seeks to transition, but also really wants kids, why shouldn't they? What business is it of yours? Do you have people scrutinising your life decisions for any trace of hypocrisy? It's just someone living their life and trying to be happy on the terms that suits them.

@jj1968 nope still don't get it. Surely a lot of men "really" want children but only women can be pregnant. So I ask again if you are a trans man living your life in every way as a man then by being pregnant is hypocritical IMO

If you are a trans man and living your true life as a man why would you be pregnant? Really not trying to be goady or anything but I really don't understand. Surely pregnancy is one of the most female things possible.

Anyone claiming they are a “trans man” who becomes pregnant is most obviously neither “trans” nor a “man”, regardless of how they wish to appear. We are all free to dress as we please, but denying biological reality rather suggests therapy rather than affirmation is required. Nor is it acceptable to expect the rest of us to change standard language in order to accommodate what are in effect lies.

No potential need for women's services = no need to have views about women's services

I'm sorry but whether healthcare providers use trans inclusive language when treating trans patients is very much my business. Much more so, I would argue, as a trans person than yours

What do you mean by 'inclusive' language? What could a midwife say in the context of her role that would not include you?

What is 'exclusive' about using biologically correct terminology? Why would you want to pretend that breastmilk, for example, does not come from breast tissue?

Can you explain?

I'm not convinced you'd be adding to the workload of anyone dealing with an unusually inflated burden and they NHS shouldn't be above scrutiny because of chronic underfunding.

I agree, the person who responds to FOI isn't going to be a midwife on the front line.

Whoever had time during a global pandemic to write the policy ('Helen' and 'Ash' according to McConnell) has time to answer a few questions about how they came up with it.

I'm not convinced you'd be adding to the workload of anyone dealing with an unusually inflated burden and they NHS shouldn't be above scrutiny because of chronic underfunding. These sorts of questions do not need input from clinicians, and ime the staff who work in the operational offices of Trusts are far removed from the frontline staff.

Most, if not all, Trusts employ an FOI officer.

Some people have no skin in the game.

I'm sorry but whether healthcare providers use trans inclusive language when treating trans patients is very much my business. Much more so, I would argue, as a trans person than yours.

Conversely I have no interest in the language used when treating non trans patients and would not dream of trying to meddle with it.

From a trans perspective it often feels like this is all the media talk about, and that the propaganda in the right wing press is relentless

Sounds like an over-blown moral panic to me. You are seeing threats to your values absolutely everywhere.....in the face of evidence to the contrary. You are on high alert and over-sensitive......and whenever an article does come up now and then, you blow it out of all proportion.....

See how it works the other way?

Do women really have the right to demand that HCPs should not use trans inclusive language when treating trans men? I'm not sure that's a 'right' is it

Moral panic' to describe a widespread fear of a group of individuals who are perceived to threaten a community's safety or core values (Cohen, 2014)

Have you ever thought the whole notion of 'inclusion' is in itself a moral panic? What does being 'included' mean in the context of being pregnant and giving birth? What has inclusion got to do with anything a midwife might do except to speak to you using your first name, and sharing with you the best of her professional knowledge, in an open manner. Which values is she threatening by using biological correct terminology? Isn't it rather over-sensitive to get so wound up or offended by that?

Who here has ever been to see a midwife and demand she use very specific language around their personal bodily parts? If I'm squeamish about the use of certain words, that is not her responsibility. it is my issue to overcome, or to deal with.

I'm not convinced you'd be adding to the workload of anyone dealing with an unusually inflated burden and they NHS shouldn't be above scrutiny because of chronic underfunding. These sorts of questions do not need input from clinicians, and ime the staff who work in the operational offices of Trusts are far removed from the frontline staff.

Wednesdayalltheway, yes absolutely and I was glad of your quote of Toseland’s moving post too.

No, no, fucking NO.

As many have said, wheres the "inclusion" for black women? Where's the inclusion for women?? Christ when I think of how people have been treated by men during labour, how I was treated by a male doctor after a birth tear, and then this?? Makes me seethe.

it's hardly lying to use chest feeding, its just a different way of describing something and one which does not affect you in the slightest

When someone with absolutely no experience of breastfeeding, the struggles of it, the meaning of it, the loss of it, the pain, ramifications and consequences of it comes on a site called Mumsnet, on a board for women, and tells us why we shouldn't be upset that the language we use for our experiences is not important, doesn't matter and is not even our business, yes it fucking affects us. How dare you!

Good advice Daisies!

A wise poster many moons ago suggested that the best approach to community disrupters is not to engage.

Some people have no skin in the game.

Those best placed to discuss improvements in breastfeeding support and midwifery are those who have used, are using or will be likely to use those services.

Again, you aren’t actually reading what I wrote, which you would if you genuinely wanted a conversation.

1st clause: justifiable on an individual patient level.

2nd clause: sexist when generalised.

Please don’t call protecting women’s rights ‘moral panic’.

Do women really have the right to demand that HCPs should not use trans inclusive language when treating trans men? I'm not sure that's a 'right' is it?

To be fair that's the kind of thing someone caught up in a moral panic would say. But how relentless is it really?

Please don’t call protecting women’s rights ‘moral panic’. It is offensive.

While justifiable on an individual patient level, if generalised, ‘chestfeeding’ is just plain sexist.